Barbour Wants to Merge State's Black Universities | Jackson Free Press | Jackson, MS

Barbour Wants to Merge State's Black Universities

In his budget proposal today to the Mississippi Legislature, Gov. Haley Barbour proposed consolidating Jackson State University, Alcorn State University and Mississippi Valley State University. He also wants to roll Mississippi University for Women into Mississippi State University. He also called for most state agencies to cut their budgets 12 percent.

See Barbour's Web site for his statement today on his new budget. Click here for a PDF of his budget proposal. A PDF of Barbour's letter to legislators is here.

Previous Comments

ID
153356
Comment

Still taking this all in, but it would seem to me that merging Valley and Delta State would make more sense than merging valley with JSU and Alcorn. Also, who will be on his "Blue Ribbon" Committee who would decide how the K-12 school districts wiold be consolidated. That right there could change teh face of pblic education in MS for years to come. Interesting to see the fallout from all of this.

Author
Renaldo Bryant
Date
2009-11-16T16:33:31-06:00
ID
153357
Comment

This is a horrible disgrace. Haley Babour trying to merge all of the Black Universities in Mississippi into one is horrible. All of these Universities have historical value to them. The Black Universities in Mississippi are all apart of the Historical Black College and Universities. Its a terrible thing when education is being consolidated.

Author
gdman13
Date
2009-11-16T16:38:08-06:00
ID
153358
Comment

So glad he didn't propose to merge any schools with Ole Miss. We wouldn't dare dirty the water of the guv's precious alma mater and the state's "premier" university. Merge Valley with Delta State, Alcorn with Southern or Jackson State, and the W with MSU.

Author
l3000
Date
2009-11-16T16:40:58-06:00
ID
153359
Comment

Been proposed before, got shot down then too. People would rather have 8 universities and no government programs. Nice try, Haley.

Author
Ironghost
Date
2009-11-16T17:04:43-06:00
ID
153360
Comment

Right, 13000, and who wants to merge with a school that still fights over Confederate era rhetoric? Ew.

Author
DonnaLadd
Date
2009-11-16T17:28:45-06:00
ID
153362
Comment

How about getting rid of Ole Miss? It has been sucking the state dry of financial benevolence for scores, yet it remains inferior to most other schools elsewhere that has been financed in such a way. This unwarranted windfall to ole miss was done at the detriment or sacrifice of other state schools, especially the black ones.

Author
Walt
Date
2009-11-16T18:30:30-06:00
ID
153363
Comment

While I would strongly agree that Mississippi has too many universities, why merge all 3 of the state's HBCUs into one? Why are Ole Miss, Delta State and USM off the table? Look, if this state really wants to get serious about consolidating its universities it needs to eliminate all 8 universities as separate colleges and merge them under a state university system like California, South Carolina, etc. Carve the state into 5 regions (Northwest, Northeast, Central, Southwest, Southeast) each region served by a SINGLE campus, all under the "University of Mississippi" system (NOT=Ole Miss). Combine schools where needed to provide a single campus in each region. No sacred cows; if Alcorn has to lose its identity, so should MSU. That way everybody shares in the pain.

Author
Jeff Lucas
Date
2009-11-16T19:44:12-06:00
ID
153364
Comment

Well looking at it from a pragmatic point of view, if you can't afford what is offered now, what is better for the students concerned, a "full featured" college or one with missing pieces? A budget crisis is a perfect time to restore some sanity to the mess that is the public university system and while there will be winners and losers, hopefully the public and the students concerned will come out ahead in the long run. I seriously doubt any closures will come out of this because the political cost is enormous, but the fact remains we do need to cut costs in the state, and there isn't much low hanging fruit in the state budget. I mean the state budget goes to education, medicaid, prisons, and services, and the services part of the state budget is pretty lean already. Do you cut Medicaid, or pay public school teachers less? Not really happening and while the universities are sacred cows I think we can all argue that some consolidation is practical and reasonable. I think what Lucas said will have to hold true, and by forming a state University system similar to that in California or North Carolina is the way to do it, at least give the appearance of even handedness. The alternative is raising taxes, and I bet the public would go for consolidation if given the choice.

Author
GLewis
Date
2009-11-16T20:27:58-06:00
ID
153365
Comment

Walt- your so funny. Ole Miss inferior to other schools in Miss? Put down that crack pipe.

Author
BubbaT
Date
2009-11-16T22:27:11-06:00
ID
153367
Comment

I agree with Blackwatch. Merging Valley with Delta would make sense geographically; merging Valley with JSU and Alcorn would not; the reasoning behind the latter appears to be demographic rather than geographic, which is a sad commentary on where we still are 55 years after Brown. South Africa, in contrast, merged its black and white universities a mere decade or so after the end of apartheid--despite an English/Afrikaans language barrier. I don't get it.

Author
Tom Head
Date
2009-11-17T04:42:00-06:00
ID
153368
Comment

You can argue it how you like; it won't happen. No one wants to give up their University. It's the other guy whose got to suffer. So, no progress.

Author
Ironghost
Date
2009-11-17T07:08:34-06:00
ID
153369
Comment

[quote]...it won't happen. No one wants to give up their University. It's the other guy whose got to suffer. So, no progress. [/quote] No doubt about that, Ironghost.

Author
Jeff Lucas
Date
2009-11-17T07:56:43-06:00
ID
153371
Comment

My two cents: This idea is so outrageous and controversial that Barbour must be floating it to draw attention away from the rest of his budget proposals, or something else he's up to. Pay attention, folks, as will we.

Author
DonnaLadd
Date
2009-11-17T08:26:48-06:00
ID
153372
Comment

ladd, I am in total agreement. TOTAL. Why does all the most ridiculous ideas in history come from the state of Mississippi. This guy......geesh! How much longer does he have, again?

Author
Queen601
Date
2009-11-17T08:35:56-06:00
ID
153376
Comment

The interesting thing about this is that consolidation won't save that much. I like the "Board of Regents" type of idea though. Being from Tennessee and going to college there, I can tell you that as long as there is one system, then the regents idea (or "state" system) is intriguing. The only issue would be endowments and alumni/booster groups contributions. The reality of the inequity between the state HBCU's and the HWCU's in MS would be resolved in a "state" system, but the U of MS and MSU are who they are vis-a-vis the other state institutions precisely because of the inequity in resources. So, there will be no "political will" to eliminate that inequity, at least from the "good ol' boys" that run state government in MS. Barbour is comfortable in proposing such a merger precisely because he knows that the alumni base of the HBCU's and the "W" don't have the political pull to stop it. Now, the argument will be strictly financial, and in these times, I think that the financial argument, if not scrutinized, will fly with alot of people. I predict there will be consolidation of some sort, both at the K-12 and at the IHL levels. But, it won't make much fiscal difference, it will only give appearances of action to try and sure up the budget. If you really wanted to make the budget, why not look into other forms of revenue, like corporate loophole closing for all the corporations and such that "provide jobs" without having to pay their share of the state tax burden? There is an excellent article in JFP talking about foreign corporations in MS. They find MS attractive because of the tax breaks and such, treating MS like a third world country almost. Don't be fooled, what you have in the conservative ideology of the "good ol' boys" that run state government is a staunch protection of the status quo, at all cost. In all of this "cost cutting", how much are the "good ol' boys" interests are being harmed? Don't cut law enforcement, prisons, and such but do cut education, medicare, and mental health facilities. It seems that instead of helping the poor, Barbour wants to "keep them in line". Are we surprised?

Author
Renaldo Bryant
Date
2009-11-17T09:16:19-06:00
ID
153379
Comment

There are several things in his proposal that don't make sense. He's suggesting that we move the Mississippi School for the Blind to the Arts School which will merge with Math and Science School. Didn't we just either build a new School for the Blind or refurbish the old one? (I believe we built a new one) The proposal says it would be a good idea because we could sell the land from the Blind School but don't we already have some land from that school that we could sell and aren't we going to have to retrofit the buildings in Brookhaven to suit blind student? None of that makes sense.

Author
msgrits
Date
2009-11-17T09:51:50-06:00
ID
153380
Comment

[quote]If you really wanted to make the budget, why not look into other forms of revenue, like corporate loophole closing for all the corporations and such that "provide jobs" without having to pay their share of the state tax burden?[/quote] Wouldn't they just move to a state that'd love another 5k (or so) jobs?

Author
Ironghost
Date
2009-11-17T09:56:09-06:00
ID
153381
Comment

Blackwatch, The state university/regents idea first came to me about 15 years ago while visiting UCLA one summer, and I got to thinking about that how kind of system could be applied in Mississippi. It’s not a perfect solution by any means, but I think it would go a long way towards addressing the inequities between the HBCUs and HWCUs in a meaningful way. Plus I’m a consistent fan of consolidation of government services mainly because I believe it can force money out of bloated and redundant administrative salaries that be saved or applied further down the line where it counts. My idea would at least allow 2 of the 3 HBCUs (Alcorn and JSU) to retain their identities and put them on an equal footing with MSU, UM and USM, while folding Valley AND Delta State into UM would force UM as the state's "premier" university to serve the Delta in a way that they previously haven’t had to. And as said in another thread, its ridiculous to have 152 school districts serving 82 counties, with some areas like Bolivar County having 8 separate districts serving a relatively minuscule population.

Author
Jeff Lucas
Date
2009-11-17T09:58:56-06:00
ID
153382
Comment

Mississippi doesn't need to take away options and affordability, and that is what merging the W, Valley, and Alcorn will do. I'll disclose that I'm a W alum and an active member of Friends of the W. I know that the W receives the least amount of state tax dollars per student and chargest the lowest tution. It is nationally ranked consistently every year for offering a great liberal arts education...a private college education for a public college cost. It offers a women's emphasis and a distinctly different academic environment than any of "the big three." Students chose the W to take advantage of the leadership opportunities for women(and men, actually) or to take advantage of small class sizes and professors instead of 300+ in a class with a grad student teaching it. They were looking for something other than football and frat parties. Why are their needs being overlooked? Come July 1, if Haley has his way, those students will pay MSU tution (a big increase over MUW tuition), give up their social clubs and traditions, and become yet a few more numbers for MSU, instead of the known faces and names they were at MUW. If they wanted that type of education, they would have signed up for it. What happens to MUW's Foundation and all it's endowments??? Do alumni at MUW have to see their money given to MSU now? Now take these concerns, and spread them out over the four colleges that are going to be affected. And ask yourself why it's ok for students at our historically black universities and at the women's college (which has fought the "good ole boys" at least 15-20 times in its history to stay open) to bear the brunt of these supposed cost-cutting measures, while the historically white colleges with football teams are unscathed. And then, consider that merging these colleges isn't even going to save money, anyway. (Barbour's own proposal makes this clear.) How can anyone with a brain and a concern for the future of Mississippi be behind this plan?

Author
lls32001
Date
2009-11-17T10:07:21-06:00
ID
153383
Comment

Ironghost, We have those "5k" jobs now and we are still looking at cutting education, medicare, and mental health among other things. Apparently those jobs aren't producing the tax revenue that warrent the tax breaks those corporations get. Basically, we give up more than we get with tax breaks in those instances. Great idea Jeff L, But how would going to regents system put the HBCU's on par with U of MS and MSU? In Tennessee, UT- Knoxville by far and away has more resources than UT-Martin or UT- Chattanooga. Going to a regents system won't necessarily guarentee parity. There would need to be safeguards or reforms in place to do that. Also, do you think there is genuine "political will" in this state or among the "good ol' boys" to actually make the HBCU's on par with the HWCU's? I don't think that the powers that be ever want to see that happen. And that is the true source of budget shortfalls in this state. There is no political will to actually deal with the inequities that so characterize the social structures in this state. Cleavages in class, gender, race, sexual preference and religion drive many of the "good ol' boys'" perception of what is right, just, and fair in their opinion. To address social inequality in those areas, to them, would be "un-American" or even "socialist".

Author
Renaldo Bryant
Date
2009-11-17T10:20:06-06:00
ID
153384
Comment

Blackwatch, I think if women and blacks are brought to the table as equal partners to help shape the university system we could place the very safeguards you are suggesting. But I don't think there will ever by full parity between the HBCUs and the HWCUs realistically because the indifference and neglect to the HBCUs went on far too long for them to catch up 100% in terms of resources. Like I said, its not a perfect solution, just an idea that I think is better than what Barbour is proposing. And no, there is no political will among the "good ol' boys" as you call 'em to create that kind of partnership. Plus, I don't think most blacks will be open to it either because we know we will still somehow get screwed over based on the state's track record, which I why I qualified my original statement by saying "if this state really wants to get serious about consolidating its universities", which it isn't, IMO.

Author
Jeff Lucas
Date
2009-11-17T10:40:07-06:00
ID
153385
Comment

Since the state budget outlook is so grim, I wonder how much the state could save by merging the two houses of the legislature and creating a unicameral legislative body? Also, let's look at salaries of elected and appointed officials and how they compare to other states. I know that the Supt. of Ed and the IHL Supt. are very well paid compared to their counterparts in other states. We all know our legislators are ridiculously well-compensated when per-diems, retirement, and other perks are considered. Do they need a new laptop every two years? Do the seats they have while in session have to be comfortable enough for napping?

Author
lls32001
Date
2009-11-17T11:05:05-06:00
ID
153386
Comment

Ole Miss inferior to other schools in Miss? Put down that crack pipe. All of our colleges have weaknesses. From where I sit, for instance, it's amazing to me that kids are graduating with English and journalism/mass comm degrees, or are in third or fourth year, and show up here to intern, and they don't know the difference between active and passive voice. That is shameful in my business. And I get kids from every school who think it is acceptable to do interviews in e-mail, who don't know how to pick up the phone and communicate one-on-one. And I'm not sure yet I've met a student or recent grad of any school in the state who has ever been taught work/time-management skills at school. All of the cool tech toys in the world can't make them good writers or journalists or any other kind of workers if no one is teaching them the basics. It's not their fault.

Author
DonnaLadd
Date
2009-11-17T11:09:02-06:00
ID
153387
Comment

One more comment, Blackwatch, then I'll let ya'll run up Donna's adhits. ;) I've already said this won't happen, it's been discussed before, and it didn't get anywhere then. [quote] Basically, we give up more than we get with tax breaks in those instances.[/quote] Nope. With those breaks, we have 5k more people pulling in paychecks than we would otherwise. If you don't give a break, you don't have people employed and pulling in money for families, which means more expenditures for the State to support them. Or do you prefer everyone being dependent on the State for all their needs?

Author
Ironghost
Date
2009-11-17T11:17:08-06:00
ID
153388
Comment

I agree Jeff L, State leadership isn't interested in leveling the playing field between the HBCU's and the HWCU's in the state (the joke called the "Ayers Settlement" proved that point). But, there is very strong interest in elimniating Alcorn and Valley at the state level. Mainly because the perception is that "money can be better spent" if they were to close. Now, it ain't PC to say it that way, but that is the sentiment. Where these schools hurt themselves is how they think they serve the "underserved" groups of students. Educating the "underserved" is admirable and necessary, but the implementation of this mission falls short when the schools hold students to lower standards (entrance requirements, graduation requirements, and over all program rigor in many instances) than the other IHL's. Even Pres. Mason's response to Barbour's proposals state that the schools serve "underserved populations". I question how well do they serve them? Until the state HBCU's recognize what the true HBCU mission is, (not to lower standards, but prepare underserved black students for success in the 21st Century global political economy), their credibility in fighting against proposals like Barbour's will fall on deaf ears around the state, and that is truly a shame.

Author
Renaldo Bryant
Date
2009-11-17T11:22:20-06:00
ID
153389
Comment

Ironghost, Your post actually proves my point. If the state benefitted so much from the tax breaks they gave corporations, then the jobs they provide would (or should) sure up the tax hole left because of the corporate tax breaks. Yet, even though the family has an income, the state is triming its budget due to "revenue shortfalls". It seems the revenue streams are drying up, yet corporations are pulling in profits using the workers and labor of the the people of MS. Don't forget, providing jobs is not a charitable contribution that these corporations are giving MS. They wouldn't provide jobs if they weren't making money. So, any job they "provide" is really just labor and workers they are "investing in" (or "exploiting") for profit. Nothing that they do warrants a tax break to the point that the tax burden is shifted to the very laborers thats supposedly benefit from the jobs "provided" by the corporations. No one is talking about not having people work and "rely on the state" for livelihood (typical market fundamentalist response to the critique of corporate tax cuts for their supposed "provsion" of jobs). I am simply posing the notion that tax breaks for corporations don't warrant what the corporations "provide" municipalities.

Author
Renaldo Bryant
Date
2009-11-17T11:35:10-06:00
ID
153391
Comment

When people of Mississippi speak out on the idea of merging colleges, I hope they won't ONLY consider our historically black universities, which is what seems to be happening right now. The same mind set that is merging JSU, Valley, and Alcorn is also merging MUW with Mississippi State. Please keep the W in the discussion. It may be small and it may have had problems in the past two years, but the W is a jewel and it has been quietly doing a great job building a national reputation for excellence for many years, even with less and less support from the state. Ever since it's beginning, the W has had to fight closure. Many different reason have come up for closing it, but they all boil down to a disdain for a college that focuses on educating women and teaching them to be leaders. Right now, comments in newspapers are calling us "The Blue Haired Mafia." Or we are "shrill voices." Women are still marginalized in this state, and losing the first public college for women in this country won't help fight that.

Author
lls32001
Date
2009-11-17T12:24:25-06:00
ID
153392
Comment

Hey folks, please pay attention to Ladd's blog 11/17/09 @8:26am. This whole "Consolidation" idea is only a smoke-screen. The real deal is the upcoming vote from the US Senate on the Administration's Health Care Bill with hopes of a public option. Barbour, other Republicans and those disguised Republicans, (BlueDog Democrats), have become the PARTY OF "NO". If Haley can get Jackson State, Alcorn and MS Valley to start a war with eachother, then, mission accomplished. He does not realize that giving Black folks a common oppressor is a UNIFIER - not a DIVIDER. He thinks he can precede with all of the fearmongering strategies that are going on about this health care issue. Some of our State Agencies have begun to help insurance companies by sending out questionaires engineered by them to frighten employees, in my opinion. On my desk today is a copy of a letter from Haley Barbour to Thad Cochran, dated October 27, 2009 with statements guaranteed to scare the socks off of most folks who are from the low informational side of the fence. There is also an attachment to this letter from the RPC Health Care Facts and whose heading states "Premiums Will Go Up." Of interest is the fact that Barbour did not suggest a consolidation of Ole MS, MS State and USM. He does not want to get this message twisted by Republicans funding agencies. It makes my stomach hurt to thing that our State, with so many uninsured, so many poor, so many unemployed, would have its Gov. talking against measures that would help. Again we take our seat at the bottom of the barrel for all positives and our stand at the top for ideations and behaviors that are negatives. Will we ever learn. Just asking.

Author
justjess
Date
2009-11-17T12:33:03-06:00
ID
153394
Comment

Justjess, we've dug into the budget more. It is nakedly political. Some of his proposals are such obvious partisan ploys that it would be hilarious if not so serious. If he gets a 10th of this crap done, we're in trouble. And then he heads back to Washington and lobbying. Yes, it's a smokescreen. A dangerous one. You're right: unity is the only answer.

Author
DonnaLadd
Date
2009-11-17T12:38:18-06:00
ID
153395
Comment

And agreed, Baquan: There are points of legitimate discussion in there, but Barbour clearly isn't hankering for a serious conversation. If he was, he wouldn't load the proposal with controversial partisan ploys that strike at women, African Americans and his political opponents. New story coming shortly.

Author
DonnaLadd
Date
2009-11-17T12:40:28-06:00
ID
153397
Comment

From where I sit, for instance, it's amazing to me that kids are graduating with English and journalism/mass comm degrees, or are in third or fourth year, and show up here to intern, and they don't know the difference between active and passive voice. That is shameful in my business. This is just plain sad. My high school English teacher would not have allowed me to pass without knowing that. There is no excuse for a college student not knowing that much. And I'm not sure yet I've met a student or recent grad of any school in the state who has ever been taught work/time-management skills at school. I'm not sure of a school that does teach this. Mine did not. But with the normal, hectic schedule of a college student, you will either learn it or not: this may mean the difference between success and failure.

Author
Lady Havoc
Date
2009-11-17T14:25:08-06:00
ID
153398
Comment

And what about merging some of the private colleges? I mean, Belhaven, Millsaps and Mississippi College could be merged easily. The fact that one is Presbyterian, one is Methodist and one is Baptist shouldn't faze our Governor. Please read the above statement with the intentional snark.

Author
Lady Havoc
Date
2009-11-17T14:34:42-06:00
ID
153399
Comment

Why is MUW always just an afterthought for this? Every time that this issue is mentioned it is "OMG THEY ARE GOING TO DESTROY THE HBCUS!!!!!! ... oh yeah, and muw." MUW has always had less political support than other universities and it has been the political support behind HBCUs that has prevented merger bills from going through before. When the MSU+MUW merger was proposed on its own (briefly) then there was a real risk it would go through. The main thing is, if mergers generally fail to result in expected savings for well run companies, how is it going to help for state run universities? Doing something this massive in a state of panic is not a good idea anyway. Neglecting the purpose of these institutions (education) and only looking at finances is the wrong way to go about this. What needs to be asked is "Would the mergers be good for these schools academically?" The answer is probably no, but i haven't looked into it, as i presume any responsible public servant would before committing to something like this.

Author
jrt
Date
2009-11-17T14:42:27-06:00
ID
153402
Comment

jrt, The simple answer to why the Financial considerations take precedent over the academic ones in these situations can be found by understadning that the elite consider education a privilege, not a right. There is a reason why so many leaders buck against the notion to make education a Constitutional right, because then all of the inequalities that we see in public education would then become illegal, and we would effectively see a push to cease even having public education. Education historically has been the bastion of elitism. The notion that education should be a democratic institution for social mobility came about with reform models in the Northeast U.S. in the late 19th and mid 20th centuries. This is why Ivy league educations are so valued, because they are the bastions of elitism. Today, public education is seen as a bone given to the masses by the elites. It has helped millions of people go from destitiute to making it, and that is as far as it should go, as the elites are concerned. So, when 60% of a state's budget is consumed by public education, it is nothing to elites and old guard leadership to cut it, because no one has a "right" to a good education anyway, that is something that is vested in class privilege (look at where the districts are that do well according to the State, it's no coincidence that they are affluent suburbs primarily). This is why Barbour doesn't see a problem with consolidating the "W" or the HBCU's because women and Black people "ought to be glad that they have a school to go to in the first place". Again, this is frank talk and he nor his supporters will never admit to it, but this sentiment is where these "proposals" come from. So, no, the final decision from the governor's office about this will not be made with academics in mind (I personally have seen decisions about education be made with only political, not academic, ramifications considered). This is why it is important that the people of MS really become more astute politically and stop electing people who only protect their political and economic interests, not the interests of the people.

Author
Renaldo Bryant
Date
2009-11-17T15:12:10-06:00
ID
153404
Comment

I agree with Ladd. I don't think Barbour himself thinks this is going to fly. I think he is sending a message that he is serious about cuts and putting some of the pressure on the legislature to come up with what they are willing to part with in the budget. I am not convinced that we cannot support all of our 4 year institutions; however, I agree with what most of you have implied and that is geographically it makes no sense to combine Alcorn, JSU, and Valley, when you literally pass other institutions along the way between those institutions. Valley is closer to Ole Miss and Delta State than JSU.

Author
Powerman
Date
2009-11-17T15:30:01-06:00
ID
153405
Comment

None of the state universities are totally autonomous to begin with. They all come under the IHL board. With today's data processing technology there is no reason that certain duplicate administrative functions--payroll management and academic records for example--could not be consolidated for all eight of them without any of them losing their historic names, unique programs or individual character.

Author
ed inman
Date
2009-11-17T15:39:27-06:00
ID
153406
Comment

[quote]I don't think Barbour himself thinks this is going to fly. I think he is sending a message that he is serious about cuts and putting some of the pressure on the legislature to come up with what they are willing to part with in the budget.[/quote] +1

Author
Jeff Lucas
Date
2009-11-17T15:41:24-06:00
ID
153407
Comment

Donna & justjess, Can we get the good JFP reporting that breaks down Barbour's budget proposal, in detail, so the rest of us can get the necessary bits?

Author
Pilgrim
Date
2009-11-17T15:42:58-06:00
ID
153408
Comment

Y'all, go to the top story ont he site now for more detail. And give us time to parse it all for more. We're here for you. ;-)

Author
DonnaLadd
Date
2009-11-17T15:45:10-06:00
ID
153409
Comment

Also, for the record, I think this whole game is a sign that Barbour is going a tad (tone) deaf. He's played the old southern strategy for so long that he doesn't know anything else. But this here is some massive race politics. And that is true no matter what one thinks about college consolidation (and I have mixed feelings).

Author
DonnaLadd
Date
2009-11-17T15:48:09-06:00
ID
153410
Comment

Baquan- Why should the medical center technically belong to JSU? They didn't have a medical program in 1950 when the UMMC was set up by the legistlature and Ole Miss did and has had one since 1903 (2yr program) but med students had to go out of state to get their doctor of medicine degrees.

Author
BubbaT
Date
2009-11-17T15:56:26-06:00
ID
153412
Comment

Baquan- location is a weak argument. Why would you put a state institution that had no medical program over a medical school?

Author
BubbaT
Date
2009-11-17T16:16:11-06:00
ID
153413
Comment

And Bubba T, even when they had their medical school at UMC during the 70s, black males could not do OB there. They were sent to other institutions in other states for this leg of thier training. Bubba, MS has a hell of a discriminating racial history and to ask baquan2000 why UMC should belong to JSU is like asking why black cows give white milk.

Author
justjess
Date
2009-11-17T16:20:29-06:00
ID
153414
Comment

BubbaT, the question is Why wasn't a medical school put at JSU? There are other questions, also. Why wasn't a law school put a JSU? Why wasn't the nursing school put a JSU? The list of questions goes on and on. When you answer these questions you will have the reason that the Ayers case was won.

Author
justjess
Date
2009-11-17T16:25:11-06:00
ID
153416
Comment

Jess- it's a valid question, in my opinion. Oh, on a field trip to a dairy in the 1st grade I asked the dairy guy if the brown and black cows gave chocolate milk...lol

Author
BubbaT
Date
2009-11-17T16:28:09-06:00
ID
153417
Comment

Bubba, I thought it was clear I was comparing ole miss to schools primarily outside Mississippi which received similar funding for such a long period of time. However, as I think about it, the other schools in Mississippi are arguably better than ole miss if you consider the money spent in comparison. Professor Eagle who taught at ole miss, and recently wrote the book about James Meredith and the Defiance of ole miss, chronicled well the fact that ole miss wasn't a great academic school by any measure when compared to other great schools, colleges and universities around the country, for for decades. It was for a long time a school for farm boy hicks, tricks and sticks hell bent on keeping the ole miss ways alive and well. As we know, at that time the intellectual dieting consisted of football, war, beer, whiskey, dipping stuff and hatred of Blacks and Indians and Jews to a smaller degree. While that diet resonated down South for a few scores, it didn't do much to elevate the school's image elsewhere beyond the South or above the Mason-Dixon line. Nall, I ain't on any of that yack. I merely know the history of your beloved ole miss better than you do. Did you go there? If not, why do you defend so tirelessly that indefensible school? I admit it has come a long way, and I thank God for that, yet it still has a long way to go in so many ways. I was merely suggesting we help the cause by closing it down. That law school, medical school, dental school, et al, hasn't done anything no one else couldn't have done. I realize your ilk takes comfort in believing otherwise. However, the truth is good for you, Bubba. Everything is going to be alright at all our schools. We will get thru this, whatever it is! Whatever its purpose or design.

Author
Walt
Date
2009-11-17T17:51:39-06:00
ID
153435
Comment

Barbour is just showing the true colors of a conservative. If university consolidation was only about saving money, Barbour would consider this compromise. Merge one of the Big 3(MSU,Ole Miss and USM) into one of the HBCUs and allow the merged school to retain the name of the HBCU. IF merging was merely about saving money, this could be a possible compromise, but we all know that is not what that part of his recommendations are about. It really just goes to show and prove that the likes of Barbour have never and will never look at these HBCUs as equals to the majority white colleges in the state. This is just another example of why a lot of minorities can not support GOP politics.

Author
Goldenae
Date
2009-11-18T13:26:11-06:00
ID
153446
Comment

I can't figure out why people think it's ok to even play Dixie at all. "Oh I wish I was in the land of cotton, Old times there are not forgotten...I wish I was in dixie, Hooray, Hooray. In dixie land I'll take my stand, To live and die in dixie" As an African American, the thought of being in the land of cotton sounds like slavery and share cropping. No thanks! Take your stand in dixie land? Against what? That song has strong history, and if UM wants to be inclusive of all students, they wouldn't play it at all. I prefer to call them UM because Old Mississippi was not a good time or place for black people. This state is almost 40% black, and the football team at UM has a much higher percentage. What is the message you send? Do you even care? Cut the chant AND the song.

Author
News Junkie
Date
2009-11-19T09:04:25-06:00
ID
153508
Comment

NJ, well said. I think the only reasons stuff like "Dixie" and the Confederate flag are acceptable is because they're nostalgia for an era that white Mississippians have never actually experienced. It's sort of like all these young folks who fondly remember the 1950s, which they never lived through, and long to go back to what they perceive to be the "moral values" (i.e., enforced patriotism, social conformity, racial segregation, and rigid gender roles) of the time. Nobody with sense who lived through the American Civil War, with 600,000 Confederate military casualties (mostly poor folks who got suckered into fighting and were only a step above slavery themselves), would "wish [they] were in Dixie." That's why waving the Confederate flag and so forth didn't get real popular among the general white population until the World War I era or so, by which time most of the Confederate veterans had died and the rest no doubt appreciated the attention. "The South will rise again," kids? Did those rosy-cheeked asshole fratboys do well enough in American History 101 to know what happened the last time the South "rose"? Didn't work out so hot. Wouldn't have even if we were independent. Only reason the economy functioned at all was because the workforce wasn't getting paid. Yeah, chain up a bunch of people in cubicles, make them work 80-hour weeks for cornmeal and pork fat, and I'll turn a profit, too. Any idiot could. BFD.

Author
Tom Head
Date
2009-11-19T16:19:50-06:00
ID
153510
Comment

When an older white Southerner refers to the 1950s and previous eras such as "The Good Ole Days", most blacks who hear that can't help but wonder, "good for who?"

Author
Jeff Lucas
Date
2009-11-19T16:24:37-06:00
ID
153535
Comment

All, The Proposed mergers will be the focus of my show on sunday. Rep. Kelvin Buck and REp. Doug Davis who is the chair of the Senate Universities and Colleges Committe will be my guests. Should be a passionate debate. 2pm Sunday. 877 672 7464 or you can stream at mpbonline.org. or follow us @ http://www.twitter.com/ACloserLook

Author
Kamikaze
Date
2009-11-20T11:54:03-06:00
ID
153543
Comment

Why is it so hard to understand that regardless of what we would like to think, there are different standards. That is quite obvious in Barbour's suggestion of merging basically all of the Black Universities and at the same time, folks that do not see anything wrong with praising the rise of Dixie. The point is not whether Barbour thinks that a merger would happen, the point is that he would even suggest such a thing. And the sad part is that from the polls, the people responding actually think it is a good idea. They think that way because they do not respect the schools that Barbour mentioned merging. If this was an idea that shut the entire system down and took everyone's identity, we would see folks vocally expressing how bad an idea it was. Barbour knows merging the Black Universities would most likely never happen, that is even more reason to suspect his lack of respect for even making the suggestion.

Author
Goldenae
Date
2009-11-20T13:27:11-06:00
ID
153584
Comment

Baquan2000, thanks for acknowledging

Author
justjess
Date
2009-11-23T13:48:48-06:00
ID
153587
Comment

Again, Thanks to baquan2000 for the insight as it relates to the Department of Mental Health. I don't think that many people have seriously anticipated the fall-out if Barbour's cuts are implemented. To paraphrase an old saying: They came for the Indians, and nobody spoke; They came for the Jews, and nobody spoke; They came for the Blacks, and nobody spoke; Now they are coming for me, and there is nobody left to speak. Think about it!

Author
justjess
Date
2009-11-23T14:19:23-06:00

Thanks to all our new JFP VIPs!

COVID-19 has closed down the main sources of the JFP's revenue -- concerts, festivals, fundraisers, restaurants and bars. If everyone reading this article gives $5 or more, we should be able to continue publishing through the crisis. Please pay what you can to keep us reporting and publishing.

Comments

Use the comment form below to begin a discussion about this content.

comments powered by Disqus