Ban Shirley Q. Liquor, blackface minstrel character | Jackson Free Press | Jackson, MS

Ban Shirley Q. Liquor, blackface minstrel character

What Don Imus did pales in comparison to this disgusting portrayal of black women.

(Los Angeles, CA) – Today, in honor of Women's History Month and African-American women, activists launched BanShirleyQLiquor.com in an attempt to call attention to Charles Knipp, a self-described forty-five-year-old, fat, gay white man that performs nationwide as his alter ego character Shirley Q. Liquor. Knipp describes Liquor as being "an illiterate welfare mother with nineteen kids who guzzles malt liquor and drives a Caddy." The character is favorite among his core audience whom Knipp described in Rolling Stone Magazine as being "gay men, their moms, and rednecks." While in blackface as Liquor, Knipp's speaks in Ebonics and makes comments like "axe your mamma how she durrin" and misuses words like "ignunt."

Knipp's is also known for mocking the Black American holiday Kwanzaa and uses Black faces to make fun of stereotypical sounding Black names in a music video entitled, "Who Is My Baby's Daddy" where his character Shirley Q. Liquor tries to recollect the names of her "chirrun," "…Cheeto, Orangello, Chlamydia, and Kmartina..."

"Imus may have called Black women 'nappy-headed ho's,' but it's Knipp who routinely tries to bring that image to life onstage as Shirley Q. Liquor," commented journalist Jasmyne Cannick. "The hypocrisy is sickening. Isaiah Washington was unable to escape the wrath of gay America, but Charles Knipp, a white gay man, can perform a blackface minstrel and be rewarded by gay Americans to the tune of $90k annually. Someone has some explaining to do. This has gone on for far too long under the radar."

What takes the cake is when Knipp "superimposed the head of Black journalist Jasmyne Cannick onto the body of a nude porn star and posted it on the homepage of his website ShirleyQLiquor.com." Photo here. DISCLAIMER: This is a pornographic photo. Please use caution when viewing it.

Please join me in signing the petition to rid the world of this racist, sexist and inhumane portrayal of black women. Also, tell everyone you know to boycott future performances. To find out more ways to take action, go to banshirleyqliquor.com and look at the sidebar on the left.

Previous Comments

ID
117435
Comment

I would also like to add that after listening to video clips and looking at the YouTube clip, it seems as if Knipp is trying to piggyback off the success of Tyler Perry's portrayal of Mable "Madea" Simmons. It's not working. Perry's character is meant to be imperfect, but through those imperfections, life lessons are taught. Knipp doesn't do that at all by having children named after STDs and degrading Kwanzaa.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-03T11:15:18-06:00
ID
117436
Comment

I think "Madea" is hilarious. Tyler Perry is a great playwrite. L.W.- Hasn't the Shirley character been around longer than Madea?, I remember hearing her a long time before I heard anything about Madea.

Author
BubbaT
Date
2008-03-03T11:47:59-06:00
ID
117437
Comment

Bubba, I never heard of Shirley Q. Liquor until today.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-03T12:04:34-06:00
ID
117438
Comment

Not that it really matters, but I don't think he is playing off of Madea's success, Knapp start doing Shirley in the early 90's and Tyler's play "Diary of a Mad Black Women" open until 2001.

Author
BubbaT
Date
2008-03-03T12:19:20-06:00
ID
117439
Comment

Okay, perhaps not, but I still don't like his portrayal, and he went over the line with the Jasmyne Cannick photo. He owes her a public apology.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-03T12:31:20-06:00
ID
117440
Comment

I agree with that. He should apologize to her,that was tasteless.

Author
BubbaT
Date
2008-03-03T12:33:58-06:00
ID
117441
Comment

The entire Shirley Q. Liquor act plays to both racist and misogynistic stereotypes, and needs to be dropped. But Chuck Knipp, the guy who does it, says he has good intentions. He's certainly done an impressive amount of volunteer work. Unfortunately, he's also Shirley Q. Liquor.

Author
Tom Head
Date
2008-03-03T17:50:11-06:00
ID
117442
Comment

Agreed, Tom. It might have helped his (and Mississippi's) image if he had not attended Ole Miss. And so the stereotypes continue...with a lotta help from our 'friends'.

Author
Kacy
Date
2008-03-03T18:30:28-06:00
ID
117443
Comment

S.Q. Liquor used to be on a site that had many webtoons, Mr. Wong and Hard Drinkin' Lincoln among them. I remeber one person posting that Mr. Wong was racially offensive and then tons of people of Asian descent posting that they thought it was hilarious. The web is not PC and I hope it never becomes so. PS- I found a 2 yr old National Lampoon mag last week cleaning out a closet and it was like manna from Heaven.

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-03T19:37:04-06:00
ID
117444
Comment

*20 yr old

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-03T19:40:15-06:00
ID
117445
Comment

Mmm. I don't know, Latasha. I definitely want to see the Shirley Q. routine banned, but it looks to me like the group protesting same might be a thinly-veiled group of homophobes. From the Ban Shirley Q. Liquor page titled "Challenge Gay America": "The reason for gay America’s refusal to focus on any other civil rights issue but gay marriage is because race and poverty aren’t of any real relevance to their movement because they’re too busy laughing at it, as they make up the core of Knipp’s audience. "BanShirleyQLiquor.com urges you to write to GLAAD, the Human Rights Campaign, Lambda Legal, and the National Gay and Lesbian Taskforce and voice your concerns. Tell them it is unacceptable to be silent on the issue of Charles Knipp and his racist blackface performance as Shirley Q. Liquor. Tell them that it’s also hypocritical of the gay community to be so silent on this issue considering how vocal they were against actor Isaiah Washington. Demand that the these organizations publicly condemn Charles Knipp’s performance and his defamation of character of Black journalist Jasmyne Cannick, and publicly disavow relationships with venues, clubs, and pride organizations that continue to book him to perform Shirley Q. Liquor. Let them know that their silence is seen as form of condoning Knipp’s behavior." Here's the thing: "Gay America" is not monolithically white, and I can't name a lesbian or gay man in my social circle who has defended Shirley Q. So I'm kind of concerned. Besides, GLAAD has condemned the Shirley Q. drag routine, and the other gay rights groups mentioned are not in the habit of commenting on media/culture issues. So when the author of the page talks about how "their silence is seen as a form of condoning Knipp's behavior"... I almost signed the petition myself. Just had a wild hair a few minutes ago that the site might not have been what it seemed at first, and the harder I look at it, the more clear that becomes.

Author
Tom Head
Date
2008-03-03T22:25:10-06:00
ID
117446
Comment

Tom, I'm not ready to call them homophobes just yet. I think the point they're trying to make is that more was said against Isaiah Washington, a black man, for the gay slur he used than against Knipp, a white man, and his performance in blackface: Tell them that it’s also hypocritical of the gay community to be so silent on this issue considering how vocal they were against actor Isaiah Washington. Isaiah Washington tried to make amends by doing PSAs, etc. and still lost his job. Knipp hasn't apologized as far as I know, and people are still going to see him portray Shirley Q. Liquor. I also think they're trying to say that because of the issues that the gay community has dealt with, they should be more sensitive to what blacks find offensive.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-03T22:37:28-06:00
ID
117447
Comment

Also, to bring this full circle, here is a forum thread I started a few years ago about the Jim Crow Museum. When I saw Shirley Q. Liquor's picture, all I could think of was those grotesque drawings.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-03T22:53:02-06:00
ID
117448
Comment

Latasha, but what can GLAAD possibly do to get off the web site's list? They've already condemned Shirley Q. Liquor's act; they've provided contact info for folks who want to protest venues where Liquor performs; why does the author of this web site describe all of that as silence? I'm not saying that there aren't serious problems with racism in LGBT communities (primarily impacting black lesbians and gay men, who have the unenviable experience of being ridiculed by Shirley Q. Liquor and then going to the web site to be excoriated for their silence as a community), but to make the kinds of blanket statements about gays and gay organizations that the web site does...I don't think that's fair. And it provides absolutely no incentive for additional gay groups to do what GLAAD has done, because GLAAD's efforts aren't being recognized.

Author
Tom Head
Date
2008-03-04T01:32:57-06:00
ID
117449
Comment

Agreed re: Shirley Q. Liquor functioning as a minstrel show act--much like those racist illustrations. She does. It's a horribly racist portrayal, and the idea that anyone at a mainstream gay club pays money to see that in 2008 is depressing...

Author
Tom Head
Date
2008-03-04T01:33:57-06:00
ID
117450
Comment

Latasha, but what can GLAAD possibly do to get off the web site's list? They've already condemned Shirley Q. Liquor's act; they've provided contact info for folks who want to protest venues where Liquor performs; why does the author of this web site describe all of that as silence? Tom, GLAAD needs to contact the author of the blog or the petition and bring it to their attention. They may not know about GLAAD's statement.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-04T07:53:39-06:00
ID
117451
Comment

just to stir the pot a little, isn't S.Q. Liquor similar to what appears in Ken Stiggers column weekly?

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-04T18:13:54-06:00
ID
117452
Comment

Rex, the jokes have a similar vibe, but Stiggers never had any characters named after STDs, and he never degraded a respected black journalist. Stiggers, like Perry, gives life lessons through his work. (His recent works about the economy have been eye-opening.) If Knipp just did voiceovers and knew when not to cross the line with what he says, I may feel better about him. However, performing in blackface will NEVER be okay with me.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T11:13:40-06:00
ID
117453
Comment

I totally agree about the blackface bit; I never knew he did that til I read the piece here. And while I detest the whole notion of political correctness, I could see where people could easily get upset over this guy. The point I was making is that once again there seems to be a double standard of what's ok and what's not ok. Also, oddly enough, every person I've ever known who thought SQL was just hilarious was a woman. That struck me as a weird coincidence.

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T12:29:24-06:00
ID
117454
Comment

How do you propose to "ban" this guy's act? Yes it is stupid and tasteless, but I'm not sure "banning" it is good....slippery slope and all.

Author
QB
Date
2008-03-05T13:08:07-06:00
ID
117455
Comment

For the record: - Knipp was raised by a lady with 16 children for which he bases his character off of and its been reported that she thinks the character is hilarious. So, the stereotypes he's fueling are based on many of his own personal experiences with his nanny/maid. From what I read years ago, she taught him the phrase "how you durrin" which is used in most of his skits. - If Perry gives a life lesson, it's been lost on me. Actually, if I close my eyes and listen to both of them, it's hard to distinguish the caricature of black women they portray. Further, I would probably have a hard time determining Mo'Nique (in some of her routines) from Knipp. With Knipp being from the Deep South and being white, it would be easy for many to proclaim his racial (or Southern?) jokes are racist.... Throw in the blackface and it becomes that much more difficult. But, it's comedic drag. The whole kitsch is about exaggeration... The caricature of a female whether it be a "welfare mom with 19 kids" or some anorexic, bipolar, drug addicted diva grinding and gyrating. Drag is about the illusion and that illusion involves a lot of makeup, "add ons" and more to alter the appearance and become the caricature or stereotype most drag artists become (including drag kings seeking the common macho stereotypes). Knipp's comedy is rooted in a sensitive area of America -- race. Obviously some will get offended (see Borat). Obviously some will want to ban it (see Borat). If Cannick has done one thing in her years of trying to ban Knipp's character, she's promoted herself and promoted Knipp's character that much more. Seems like they both gain from her pursuit to ban Shirley Q Liquor. Am I a fan? No. Do I think Liquor is funny? I've heard some very funny skits that remind me of more than a handful of Southern women I've met, known, or were related to. Noticed I said Southern... Not Black! I think that "knowing" part makes it very easy for me to laugh (and maybe even reflect). I think that's where a lot of non-Southerners might find Knipp's character difficult to swallow. They don't know the character on any real level and can only see a reflection of Mammy from Gone with the Wind rather than an audacious, tell-it-like-it-is, Southern woman with a thick country accent (who happens to have 19 kids and is on welfare). I've seen Knipp live in Jackson without knowing much about his show. It was very interesting since more than 1/3 of the audience was black. The whole house was laughing after a few silent moments of awkwardness and adjusting to the concept of blackface in a drag/comedy routine. Do I think Knipp is racist? No. Do I think Liquor is a stereotype? Yes. Much like Jack from Will and Grace or half the characters on prime time television. Do I think stereotypes hurt? Yes... Or they can make you laugh. I think any time we have to study that pool of reality where stereotypes breed, yes... It can burn. But, I think laughing at stereotypes allows us to be comfortable with the fact they are partial truths in our own communities. Knipp has another character that is a pill-popping stereotype of a religious, white, Southern woman perpetually searching for a church and another carton of cigarettes. I don't see anyone getting offended by that stereotype being perpetuated. I think the hardest part for most to accept about Knipp's character is the blackface... Understanding drag, make-up, and caricature, I don't see it the same way, but I do see how some could be offended. Not one soul has called for a ban on the film White Chicks or Madea, so most of Knipp's drama seems to stem solely from the use of blackface by a white man because those other two films/characters do nothing but perpetuate stereotypes and one even uses "whiteface".

Author
kaust
Date
2008-03-05T13:39:25-06:00
ID
117456
Comment

And while I detest the whole notion of political correctness, I could see where people could easily get upset over this guy. Reximus, what is your definition of political correctness? I want to understand where you are coming from. How do you propose to "ban" this guy's act? Yes it is stupid and tasteless, but I'm not sure "banning" it is good....slippery slope and all. Fat Harry, I got the word "ban" from the name of the Web site I linked to. What I had in mind was boycotting the act, or at least getting Knipp to modify his act by not using blackface and not saying that Shirley has children named Gonorrhea and Chlamydia. If Perry gives a life lesson, it's been lost on me. Actually, if I close my eyes and listen to both of them, it's hard to distinguish the caricature of black women they portray. Further, I would probably have a hard time determining Mo'Nique (in some of her routines) from Knipp. Knol, do you remember this scene from "Madea Goes to Jail"? In it, the character shares her views on relationships. That's what I mean by a life lesson. Also, I think Mo'Nique a a beautiful plus-sized sista who is proud to be herself. I don't think she is anything like Knipp's character. But, it's comedic drag. The whole kitsch is about exaggeration... The caricature of a female whether it be a "welfare mom with 19 kids" or some anorexic, bipolar, drug addicted diva grinding and gyrating. Drag is about the illusion and that illusion involves a lot of makeup, "add ons" and more to alter the appearance and become the caricature or stereotype most drag artists become (including drag kings seeking the common macho stereotypes). I must admit that I don't know much about comedic drag. Is it similar to a roast as far as humor is concerned? If Cannick has done one thing in her years of trying to ban Knipp's character, she's promoted herself and promoted Knipp's character that much more. Seems like they both gain from her pursuit to ban Shirley Q Liquor. That's what they said about Imus. Just sayin'. Do I think Knipp is racist? No. Do I think Liquor is a stereotype? Yes. Much like Jack from Will and Grace or half the characters on prime time television. Do I think stereotypes hurt? Yes... Or they can make you laugh. I think any time we have to study that pool of reality where stereotypes breed, yes... It can burn. But, I think laughing at stereotypes allows us to be comfortable with the fact they are partial truths in our own communities. I totally get that, but why did he have to post that porno picture on his Web site? What kind of message does that send? Knipp has another character that is a pill-popping stereotype of a religious, white, Southern woman perpetually searching for a church and another carton of cigarettes. I don't see anyone getting offended by that stereotype being perpetuated. Never heard of that one. I need more info. I think the hardest part for most to accept about Knipp's character is the blackface... Understanding drag, make-up, and caricature, I don't see it the same way, but I do see how some could be offended. I'm glad you can understand that. Not one soul has called for a ban on the film White Chicks or Madea, so most of Knipp's drama seems to stem solely from the use of blackface by a white man because those other two films/characters do nothing but perpetuate stereotypes and one even uses "whiteface". I dunno. The makeup used in "White Chicks" seems to be more realistic (like some of Eddie Murphy's work) than what Knipp is doing. As far as Madea is concerned, the plays were only popular in the black community at first, so we were just laughing at ourselves at first, but that popularity just happened to spread. I don't really know how else to explain it.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T14:15:49-06:00
ID
117457
Comment

FYI -- There are people here in Jackson named Tequila and Margarita.

Author
QB
Date
2008-03-05T15:05:51-06:00
ID
117458
Comment

There is a girl in Bolivar County named Nosmoking. My mother-in-law worked at the Health Dept. and the girl's mother, a kid herself, said when she woke up after having a C-section she had a vision and Nosmoking was what God wanted her to name the baby.

Author
BubbaT
Date
2008-03-05T15:15:12-06:00
ID
117459
Comment

Margarita was a name before the drink. It was named after Marjorie King... I do love my margaritas. ;-)

Author
kaust
Date
2008-03-05T15:24:51-06:00
ID
117460
Comment

We're coming to Jackson to do a multimedia conceptual art project that addresses an aspect of these kinds of stereotypes and negative images, in a way that's never been done before, by anyone, anywhere. It focuses on an overlooked positive aspect of black culture in the black diaspora and tries to explain how it got to be okay for people like Knipp to do what they do. Excuse me for shamelessly self-promoting. It has to do with Love.

Author
willdufauve
Date
2008-03-05T15:34:31-06:00
ID
117461
Comment

FYI -- There are people here in Jackson named Tequila and Margarita. I know. I've heard all kinds of names in the community. I just never heard of anyone named after STDs. There is a girl in Bolivar County named Nosmoking. My mother-in-law worked at the Health Dept. and the girl's mother, a kid herself, said when she woke up after having a C-section she had a vision and Nosmoking was what God wanted her to name the baby. I've heard that story told many ways. One version says the mother thought she saw the name in a vision, but it turned out to be a "No Smoking" sign. Here's more info from Snopes.com: [quote]There was a Nosmo King, but it was a matter of a grown man adopting an unusual stage name, not of an infant being saddled with his mother's stupidity. H. Vernon Watson (b. 1886, d. 1949) was a well-known British music hall artist before World War I. In the early 1920s, Watson did a "blackface" bit under the fanciful name of Nosmo King. The routine went over so well that by 1925 Watson was billed as his onstage persona, Nosmo King. [/quote] We're coming to Jackson to do a multimedia conceptual art project that addresses an aspect of these kinds of stereotypes and negative images, in a way that's never been done before, by anyone, anywhere. It focuses on an overlooked positive aspect of black culture in the black diaspora and tries to explain how it got to be okay for people like Knipp to do what they do. Excuse me for shamelessly self-promoting. It has to do with Love. Nothing wrong with promoting yourself. When will you be here?

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T16:03:22-06:00
ID
117462
Comment

I've seen Medea live at the Fox. It's pretty amazing. Why can't a sermon in church be that way? I mean if the Sunday Morning "Talked Ats" were like that....they would be worth going to.

Author
ATLExile
Date
2008-03-05T16:18:41-06:00
ID
117463
Comment

ATL, they're out there - just not as popular.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T16:21:58-06:00
ID
117464
Comment

when I went to clip the birth announcement out of the N'side Sun after my oldest was born, there was one in there for a baby named Porshe D'Acura . True story. And I define PC as being considered by others to be boorish/racist/sexist/xenophpbic etc. for saying something that is actually true.

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T16:31:19-06:00
ID
117465
Comment

when I went to clip the birth announcement out of the N'side Sun after my oldest was born, there was one in there for a baby named Porshe D'Acura . True story. I never said it doesn't happen. However, what is your opinion of those who choose such names for their children? How do you feel about celebrities who have given their children names like Moon Unit, Apple or Pilot Inspektor? And I define PC as being considered by others to be boorish/racist/sexist/xenophpbic etc. for saying something that is actually true. True for some or true for all? I define being PC as being respectful to people who are not like you.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T16:39:21-06:00
ID
117466
Comment

I have actually seen the name on the file folder at the Health Dept for the Nosmoking. Urban legend or not. Maybe they just had it in there as a joke. I'll have to ask my mother-in-law. I had a couple of customers with funny names one named Ineeda Little and another named Caprice Classic.

Author
BubbaT
Date
2008-03-05T16:45:19-06:00
ID
117467
Comment

Caprice Classic? Sigh... You know, I made up my mind a long time ago that if I ever had children, I would be very careful about naming them. I want their names to have power and meaning. I also want to make sure I know the meaning of the names and not just name my child something because it sounds good.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T17:01:29-06:00
ID
117468
Comment

You left out Moon Unit's brother, Dweezil. As far as my opinion of people with such names, it varies. Some are decent people, some not so much, just like society as a whole. I wonder more about the parents who would give their child such a name. Here's an example of what I consider PC nonsense- If I were to say something like "African Americans are more likely to have an apostrophe in their name than Caucasians or Latinos" some people would say that's racist, but it's just an (accurate) observation. To me, the concept of PC stands in direct opposition to freedom of speech. People need to learn to not be so thin- skinned. I certainly see where the Blackface bit is over the line, but if you get bent out of shape by a cartoon on the interwebs, you should get over yourself.

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T17:03:15-06:00
ID
117469
Comment

Here's an example of what I consider PC nonsense- If I were to say something like "African Americans are more likely to have an apostrophe in their name than Caucasians or Latinos" some people would say that's racist, but it's just an (accurate) observation. I don't think that statement is racist. I think that if you said that n-----s were more likely to have apostrophes in their names, then that would be racist. To me, the concept of PC stands in direct opposition to freedom of speech. People need to learn to not be so thin- skinned. You know, it's hard not to be thin-skinned when your self-esteem is already shot because society implies that what is normal about you is considered to be abnormal. That goes for blacks, women, Latinos, Asians, Native Americans, amputees, chemo patients... I certainly see where the Blackface bit is over the line, but if you get bent out of shape by a cartoon on the interwebs, you should get over yourself. Are you referring to the Jim Crow Museum link I posted? Do you understand that those cartoons were a form of propaganda to oppress blacks because it made us look inferior?

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T17:23:02-06:00
ID
117470
Comment

no, I was referring to the SQL cartoons, like the "Who is my Baby Daddy" one.

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T17:28:02-06:00
ID
117471
Comment

Chemo patients? what so abnormal about us?

Author
BubbaT
Date
2008-03-05T17:42:34-06:00
ID
117472
Comment

"Here's an example of what I consider PC nonsense- If I were to say something like "African Americans are more likely to have an apostrophe in their name than Caucasians or Latinos" some people would say that's racist, but it's just an (accurate) observation". You mean apostrophes as in O'Connor, O'Brien, O'Neil, O'Shaughnessy, O'Toole? Your observation is not that accurate (Or, you've read "How the Irish Became White" by Noel Ignatiev?).

Author
willdufauve
Date
2008-03-05T18:22:56-06:00
ID
117473
Comment

no, I was referring to the SQL cartoons, like the "Who is my Baby Daddy" one. I have a feeling that I don't need to look that up. Chemo patients? what so abnormal about us? To clarify, I didn't say that chemo patients were abnormal. I said society implies that they are.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T18:28:55-06:00
ID
117474
Comment

I find the concept of "PC" a dilution of a powerful, radical social justice idea - the notion that our speech defines our world, and that if we learn to use speech in ways that support others rather than demeaning them, then we will all benefit from a more rational, liveable world. The people who bemoan PC-ness, to me, are those who chose NOT to see this social movement for what it was, an idea whose time was at hand. It's too easy to dismiss something when it has no real bearing on you or your chances at life. But when it matters, for example, to me the issue of gender inclusive language MATTERS to me, well then it's something entirely different. It’s not a "hassle" - it's a transformation of life that has real possibility.

Author
Izzy
Date
2008-03-05T18:37:26-06:00
ID
117475
Comment

also, wildfauvre, post more about your project somewhere - it has an interesting ring to it. Right now I'm Denmark, where almost everyone is the same culturally, and yet they all speak English in addition to Danish. It's strange.

Author
Izzy
Date
2008-03-05T18:40:51-06:00
ID
117476
Comment

Izzy, do you mean "in" Denmark? :-)

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T18:52:47-06:00
ID
117477
Comment

L.W. There's an old saying, "You can't fix stupid." I'm on your side on this but you can't win. People in personal choice situations like a comedy club have a free speech right to be as tasteless and offensive as they want. That's what a lot of comedy is based on. Even Richard Pryor did some pretty offensive stuff about both white and black people. You'd be on firmer ground if Knipp tried to do this routine like in a public school. The antidote to the Knipps of the world, beside raising public awareness, which you're doing a good job of, is to present other alternatives that are uplifting and not destructive.

Author
willdufauve
Date
2008-03-05T19:00:06-06:00
ID
117478
Comment

Izzy, well said. You and L.W. are really right on. The project my wife and I are coming to Jackson to do is the antidote to people like Knipp, it's a key that unlocks the door.

Author
willdufauve
Date
2008-03-05T19:06:52-06:00
ID
117479
Comment

I get what your saying, will. There are people from every background who like to belittle others in order to make themselves feel superior. That will always be around as long as the world is around. This was about awareness, and it also was about having an opportunity to speak out against something that I don't agree with, which is also free speech. :-)

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T19:27:12-06:00
ID
117480
Comment

I'm Denmark, that's funny. The jet lag must be catching up with me! :-) Definitely meant to say I'm in Denmark. Thanks wildufauve, I appreciate that you get what I'm saying. Did you know more than 35% of people commute to work by bicycle in Denmark? I've never seen so many bicycles!!!

Author
Izzy
Date
2008-03-05T19:57:41-06:00
ID
117481
Comment

"You mean apostrophes as in O'Connor, O'Brien, O'Neil, O'Shaughnessy, O'Toole?" No, I was referring to first & middle names, such as the aforementioned Porsche D'Acura. "I find the concept of "PC" a dilution of a powerful, radical social justice idea - the notion that our speech defines our world, and that if we learn to use speech in ways that support others rather than demeaning them, then we will all benefit from a more rational, liveable world." I'm not really into demeaning anyone, but I don't think their self esteem is my responsibilty, either. Tha'ts something that must be earned.

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T20:18:44-06:00
ID
117482
Comment

yes, that is true, each of us must stand up for ourselves and do what we can to create our own self esteem. Yet, how do we react if we are born into a society where only the self-esteem of *some* of society's members is torn to shreds as a matter of due course? Isn't there some sort of inherent obligation to address such structural inequality? The "stacked deck" ? I think there is, but maybe that's just me. What I'm saying is, it seems that often those who don't want to take part in restacking the deck are the very people whose identities give them inherent power and worth (i.e. white, or upper class). Thanks for the discussion, Reximus, I think you have interesting points.

Author
Izzy
Date
2008-03-05T20:25:08-06:00
ID
117483
Comment

I'm not really into demeaning anyone, but I don't think their self esteem is my responsibilty, either. Tha'ts something that must be earned. I think "developed" would be a better word choice than "earned". To me, saying that it must be earned is like saying others have to approve of you before you can have it. Self-esteem is difficult to acquire when you are told from an early age, directly or indirectly, that you are inferior in some way. Reminds me of the black doll/white doll experiment that was recently redone, or the book "The Bluest Eye" by Toni Morrison.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T20:42:48-06:00
ID
117484
Comment

I've always believed in the "self" part of self esteem. And the number of people who come from the deck-stacked-against- them part of society that have gone on to excel in any number of ways, to me anyway, bolsters that belief.

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T20:48:07-06:00
ID
117485
Comment

Yes, it's a blessing that some are able to beat the odds, but does that mean that the rest who could not are not worthy of assistance, especially children? It takes a thousand "atta boys" to counteract one "you're an idiot". If I saw a child being teased about her looks and she began to cry, I wouldn't tell her to shut up and get over it. I would tell her she was beautiful and that God doesn't make mistakes. She doesn't have to earn the right for me to tell her that. That's just love for your fellow man.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T20:57:33-06:00
ID
117486
Comment

I agree, but first I'd administer a severe reprimand to the other kid. That's the way I raise my kids. Kinda starts from the ground up, in that regard. (and by reprimand I mean a severe look and let it be known that that's not cool at all).

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T21:29:48-06:00
ID
117487
Comment

:adendum And that's not about another's self esteem, that's just good plain manners, as my my Grandma would say

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T21:34:19-06:00
ID
117488
Comment

Could PC be a type of good manners?

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T21:36:28-06:00
ID
117489
Comment

Of course, when not taken to extremes, as it seems to have been. I'm afraid that the whole PC movement, as it were, was born of the loss of said manners. I'm 45 and still say thank you ma'am or sir to the 17 yr old kid working the register at teh grocery store.

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T21:54:54-06:00
ID
117490
Comment

Well, that's good to know. :-) Anyhoo, I'm headed for bed. There's nothing PC about sinusitis. Ouch.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T21:58:18-06:00
ID
117491
Comment

get a decodron shot, it's the only thing that helps other than antibiotics which I try to avoid.

Author
bill_jackson
Date
2008-03-05T22:00:09-06:00
ID
117492
Comment

I've had lots of those, but I was trying to avoid the clinic. Oh well.

Author
LatashaWillis
Date
2008-03-05T22:02:12-06:00

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