Grand White Party

http://www.laprensa-sandiego.org/current/non.factor.082908.htm

I think the simple answer is that the black community in America is wildly excited about Obama's candidacy. They should be, he's a smart guy who embodies traditional democratic party values.

Additionally, one has to remember that political conventions are not intended to reflect the cross-section of America. They are intended to reward party workers who have toiled in the grassroots. I think the number of 6-7% of Blacks at the 2004 GOP convention is more in line with the national makeup of the party. The Obama factor has suppressed that this year. I know prominent black Repub's here in the state that are supporting Obama...while I don't agree, I fully understand and respect thier right to do that.

The link above is from a leading hispanic publication in California and accurately reflects the opinions of hispanic Dem's I talk to.

Lastly, leave it to the Washington Post to miss things by 180 degrees! If the racial make-up for every function where to be considered McCain should have had 3 blacks instead of 1 out of 67 folk in Wilkes-Barre for his function (U.S. Census Bureau)there. Write about 1 of 67 in Yazoo City maybe...but...

Obviously, African Americans are excited about Obama's candidacy! So are many white people, especially women. And young people of all races. And Latinos. And other non-white groups.

But it's not because he's black (if it were, Sharpton and Jackson would have done much better); it's because he "gets it."

As for the Convention, it reflects the delegates of the Republican Party who reflect its following. You can't get away from that.

And the biggest factor for Obama's huge multi-racial support is the racialized politics the Republican Party has played for years, "the southern strategy" that used to work so well on a national level and tragically here in the state, especially by men like Kirk Fordice who didn't even seemed ashamed to have appeared before the Council of Conservative Citizens and told them how great they are. (Looking backward, one could call it his Palin Independence Party moment.)

What is so encouraging is how much as changed—from Ken Muhlman (sp?) apologizing to the NAACP on behalf of the national GOP for using such a disgusting strategy for the racist vote, to younger voters being disgusted by a big roomful of white people cheering on a woman belittling a black candidate who has inspired them, of all races, like no one else ever has.

You don't seem to get it, either, with due respect. Things are changing. It's time to bury the ugly old "southern strategy" once and for all. Angry white people are losing the ability to set the country's course. Thank God.

How many African Americans (or white or Latino or other Americans, for that matter?) do you think could identify with Cindy McCain's *outfit* for her appearance before the RNC?

Cindy McCain
Oscar de la Renta dress: $3,000
Chanel J12 White Ceramic Watch: $4,500
Three-carat diamond earrings: $280,000
Four-strand pearl necklace: $11,000–$25,000
Shoes, designer unknown: $600
Total: Between $299,100 and $313,100

Source

Obama's candidacy has very little to do with why the Republican Party looks like it does. I will tell you exactly why. After the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Act, Republicans chose to have a "Southern Strategy" where they courted disgruntled southern whites. There is no way to do that and be respectful of the black community. Even the former Republican Chairman, Melhmann admitted a few years back that they played polarizing politics. Fast forward to today. You have respected folks in the Republican community like Rush Limbaugh that uses every instance he can to be insulting to blacks. Even going so far as to have a black guy on the show who translates things into "ghetto" talk. People can agree with every position you hold, but if you do not respect them, they will not listen to you. Ronald Reagan is a Republican icon, but he said the Voting Rights Act was "humiliating to the south", he opposed a holiday for Martin Luther King. With icons like that, most black people can not buy into what Republicans have to say. And lastly, whether they agree with Obama or not, they could respect him. When they do not, people take that personally. Republicans can say a lot of things, but they have not done a thing to show that they want any thing other than black people's vote. The biggest thing they could do is show some respect.

Oh come on...no more than you or I identifying with Michelle Obama's million dollar plus salary.

...and what part of the southern strategy was former prez Bill Clinton playing in South Carolina a few months ago...anybody remember that??

Oh come on...no more than you or I identifying with Michelle Obama's million dollar plus salary.

You're right. Michele is a great American success story at this point. But I can identify with the way she worked herself up into it. And, you know what, I don't need to see her wearing it all on her back every day.

The point, if you forgot it, is the Republican Convention, and how it did not come close to representing what America really is.

I remember covering Bush's first inaugural for the Voice. I can't tell you many mink coats were there in freezing rain. It was so clear that how out of touch Bush supporters were with America, and it has proved out with the horrifying mess he's left us (along with his Senate supporters who "voted with him 90 percent of the time. Ahem). Now we have more of the same, down to the pandering to the extreme, white right.

The Republican Party just does not know how to change itself and evolve, it seems. And that's sad, because I believe it could have beaten the Dems to it.

...and what part of the southern strategy was former prez Bill Clinton playing in South Carolina a few months ago...anybody remember that??

Of course! Hayes, I despise Bill Clinton and agree with you: He and his wife showed they are not above the southern strategy, and it has cost him the mantle of being "American's first black president." I'm glad the truth emerged on him.

But that has little to do with this conversation, does it? You stumbled onto the wrong site to defend McCain and the southern strategy if you think you're talking to people who defend the Dems no matter what! We call it, regardless of party.

Clintons=disaster. Bush=disaster. Melton=disaster. McCain/Palin=disaster.

(Note we were right on the first three. There really is something to be said for *not* looking at everything through partisan lenses. You should try it.)

I have enjoyed this morning but your last post proved there's no changing these stripes.  Michelle Obama's millions are ok even though they came at the expense of more deserving people due to affirmative action.  Even part of that was needed some time ago, but no longer.What will Michelle wear when she's in DC this January?  Sackcloth...I doubt it..  The wealthiest people I personally know are Dem's and all you can talk about is clothes, mink coats and the southern strategy. You think the beautiful Dem's in LA and the moneychangers in NYC wear Timex and drive Honda's...yea.
If this is all you've got (which has been basically a repeat of the last time I visited here)then the McCain/Palin ticket is in great shape.

America is a great country and Obama will come very close to winning this year and I can already hear him talking to whoever the next host on Meet The Press is..."you know I'll admit I wasn't quite ready in 2008...but this year is different" He probably will be Prez one day. But all y'all do here is flame the fire of class warfare and the incredible bitterness of the left. I said this here a couple of years ago and nothing has changed here...to preach tolerance so much, you all sure like the trash that which you don't agree with.

Mink Coats and The Voice...please...that sounds like some throw back to Janis Joplin...and it insults that great Texan!

I admire your last post and am surprised and heartened by it.

Michelle Obama's millions are ok even though they came at the expense of more deserving people due to affirmative action.

WHAT, Hayes?!? Could you list those "more deserving" people than one of the most impressive women I've ever laid my eyes on?

Do you know how this sounds? You sound like a card-carrying southern strategist. I am very disheartened by that post.

you all sure like the trash that which you don't agree with.

Is that the best you've got? From the best I can get from that nonsensical sentence—are you one of the people Michelle Obama beat out with her affirmative action by any chance?—you're calling someone "trash" when they point out that your precious party has played the racist card for years, and can't manage to track anybody but angry white people to their Convention? That is so laughably ad-hominem desperate that I can't stand it. Ms. Palin is bringing out the best in y'all today.

Class warfare, indeed. You're playing the race card without even flinching, and your Obama-affirmative-action quotes proves it. And you can keep your compliment because I criticized Clinton (so suddenly I'm alright to you, except when I'm waging class warfare. Yeah, whatever).

You've been watching the JFP for years; you know we call it like we see it, regardless of party. And we, so far, we are batting a thousand on being right about candidates we warn about. That's not because we're genius; it's simply because we're willing to tell the truth regardless of party or race. Including yours. And that is sadly uncommon on the right or the left, or even in the media, which is always afraid of offending one group or another.

Saddest of all is that the Republican Party has essentially made no strides on race issues, as was in shocking evidence last night as Sarah Palin, Rudy Guiliani and Mitt Romney threw red meat, and belittlement of Obama, at an extremely white crowd. The Washington Post called it today in this story, In a More Diverse America, A Mostly White Convention:

Organizers conceived of this convention as a means to inspire, but some African American Republicans have found the Xcel Energy Center depressing this week. Everywhere they look, they see evidence of what they consider one of their party's biggest shortcomings. As the country rapidly diversifies, Republicans are presenting a convention that is almost entirely white.

Only 36 of the 2,380 delegates seated on the convention floor are black, the lowest number since the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies began tracking diversity at political conventions 40 years ago. Each night, the overwhelmingly white audience watches a series of white politicians step to the lectern -- a visual reminder that no black Republican has served as a governor, U.S. senator or U.S. House member in the past six years.

"It's hard to look around and not get frustrated," said Michael S. Steele, a black Republican and former lieutenant governor of Maryland. "You almost have to think, 'Wait. How did it come to this?' "

The look in the convention hall is similar to that of a typical McCain event. This summer, for instance, 67 people showed up for one of his town hall meetings in Wilkes-Barre, Pa. One of them was black.

The lack of diversity is out of sync with the demographic changes in the United States. The Census Bureau reported last month that racial and ethnic minorities will make up a majority of the country's population by 2042 -- almost a decade earlier than what the bureau predicted just four years ago. Two-thirds of Americans are non-Hispanic whites, 12.4 percent are black and 14.8 percent are Hispanic, according to 2006 census numbers.


posted by ladd on 09/04/08 at 10:42 AM. [printer-friendly version]

Ladd - THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNKKK YOU! You are starting to see the light!!!!!!! Preach on sister, preach on!!!!!

I wish more white folks payed attention to key points just like you!!!!

Like I said on the Palin thread - just make sense of what you are preaching, not just flip flop rhetoric! Good job on that! You get some cred on that one!

Things are changing. It's time to bury the ugly old "southern strategy" once and for all. Angry white people are losing the ability to set the country's course. Thank God.

I thought this more than anything last night when I watched Mitt and Rudy. All I could see were too desperate old white men trying to HOLD ON to what they thought should be theirs.

As for the amount of Black people at the convention? Well, I joked while watching it that the camera made sure to pan to EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM during the course of the evening just to prove a point.

I think the camera man got bonuses if they could convince the watching public this was actually a diverse event.

What is so encouraging is how much as changed—from Ken Muhlman (sp?) apologizing to the NAACP on behalf of the national GOP for using such a disgusting strategy for the racist vote, to younger voters being disgusted by a big roomful of white people cheering on a woman belittling a black candidate who has inspired them, of all races, like no one else ever has.

posted by ladd on 09/04/08 at 12:18 PM

This is where you had me at hello!? when you said this, "to younger voters being disgusted by a big roomful of white people cheering on a woman belittling a black candidate who has inspired them, of all races, like no one else ever has."

That tells me - you are getting it!!!!!! Rudy Gulliani, Mitt Romney and the Palinator - didn't give that dude(Obama) one ounce of respect!? Huckabee was the closest one, but he still had to hold true!!!!

Lori G made a good point, they did make a concentrated effort to show that there were more than 3 or 4 people of other ethnicities in that audience!

Good point Lori!

Behave, Walt. Everytime you dive off the deep end, I get e-mails from conservatives complaining that I'm meaner to them than you. Sadly, they don't e-mail when people on the right go too far, and I don't delete it.

Baquan, I know you're fairly new here, but I've "gotten it" for a long time.

Ask "Walt." ;-)

And if stick around long enough, you'll see how much that pisses off some of the old-schoolers who would prefer that I go along with the old (white) playback.

But I'm my own bulldog. With lip gloss.

<Go Croom!>

I'm out. Gotta work. Y'all leave me alone.

Let the past go, you were doing good until you got to the last paragraph with the exception of this OBSESSION with the "southern strategy". You are like Jack Kemp bringing up going back to the gold standard in the 80's. You could ask him about anything and he would within 5 minutes be talking about the damn gold standard.

You only hear what you want to hear from people you disagree with. I said there was a time and place for affirmative action...I believe that time has passed as do a lot of blacks. What do I get...the southern strategy. I pointed out your misleading comments about class warfare. What do I get...the southern strategy.

Now to the last paragraph...batting a thousand??? Did I hear that right??? Do a little research on folk who think they bat 1,000. It will make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

I do follow this paper because i think alternative thought is a good thing (read Meacham's latest in Newsweek). But as soon as you start thinking about being perfect, I'm going to tell you to head on into Meltonland. I enjoy seeing the passion in people's views...something that's been missing from the right for over a decade I'm sad to say. It would probably be a good exercise for you to spend some time thinking about things you agree on with Repub's. That's what I do every day and it's one of the things I admire about Obama. If you'll notice there is no bitterness with this guy (another thing I like about him). You criticize me for going "personal" but you never notice or conceed it's right after you make some "mink coat" kind of comment.

(Baquan, you need to learn to use italics. You keep quoting me, and it's hard to tell what is what.)

Now, finally something we can agree on...let's get to work...I hate being a junkie for this sometimes but I can't help myself. Thanks for the exchange!

Hayes, are you positive *I'm* the one obsessed with the southern strategy? I have PDFs, you know. ;-)

And I believe it was you who went back to Bill Clinton's use of the southern strategy, even though he's irrelevant to this race. Are there different rules for a white girl who doesn't follow the program?

We're not "perfect"; we've just been right about the candidates we've criticized.

I know well things I agree with intelligent Republicans on—or I should say actual conservatives. (I really hate party labels.) Let's see: eminent domain, efficient government, the Constitution (I'm down with all the amendments, though), anti-spying on Americans, the need for campaign-finance reform (go McCain-Feingold), cutting out corporate welfare, keeping jobs in America for Americans, keeping the government out of people's bedrooms ... should I go on?

As for Meltonland, we've spent a lot of time there already, thank you very much, going where no other media would go until we did.

Now for "mink coats," Hayes. The inaugural route was filled with mink coats. Outside in freezing rain. You can't just toss that fact on down the memory hole because it doesn't help your argument. Your logic that my "mink coat" argument somehow deserved you going personal is simply absurd. Did Michelle Obama's affirmative action mean you couldn't attend a decent logic class?

As for that comment, it is the most racist thing I've seen on here in a long time. Thank you for posting it, though; true colors can be very educational.

For now, I'm out. Thanks for dropping in and picking a fight. But guess what? It's not going to change anything over here. There are people who think differently than you in Mississippi, Hayes. And many of us are white. Get used to it.

The party is grand for sure. In fact, I couldn't count all the granddaddies I saw trying to hold on just a moment or two longer of the status quo last night. The camera people, who no doubt were hired and instructed to find as many black faces as possible had a hard time locating any. In fact, I believe I overheard one camera man saying there just isn't any dark people or spots here to film.

I did see one older black gentlemen with the Colin Powell look on his face and mumbling something such as I can't believe I came to this, just before he said I can't tolerate any more of these nuts and left.

For those who don't know, there aren't many blacks who will join up with the klan and other known racists. Of course, not everyone in the repugs party is racist, just a lot of them. Now, let's be clear, we do have some special Negroes like Steele (2 of them), Elders, Connerly, Innis, Jr, Williams (2 of them) (and the brother who ran against Barack for the senate whose name escapes me now) who are too happy to vote with and stand next to klansmen and other racists who hate them.

We (black folks) have been called illiterate, predators, beasts, incapable or learning or change, et al. However, I'm proud to say not many of us have been dumb enough to join the republican party. If I'm not mistaken in my knowledge of history, we had far more blacks in the klan and confederate army than we have members in the republican party. Does that tell anyone anything?

We will join the republican party in decent numbers when it changes and not before.

All of us who don't bat 1,000 make mistakes in life and I'll readily admit to being...chiefest amongst sinners!!

Williams (2 of them) (and the brother who ran against Barack for the senate whose name escapes me now) who are too happy to vote with and stand next to klansmen and other racists who hate them.

posted by Walt on 09/04/08 at 01:40 PM

Walt - that is the great Alan Keyes!!!!! That dude moves from state to state just to do stuff like that on behalf of the Republicnas it seems!

Thanks Baquan. Alan Keyes will do the hambo dance anytime and place Masa asks him to. The republicans ought to be proud of him.

Wow, I pop in here every year or so just to see what's going on, as I used to live in jackson. Michael Steele (a black man) was one of the speakers last night. He just wasn't a prime time speaker. It was a good speech for those who refused to watch public tv.

Let's face it, Republicans led the march in the early 60s for minorities, never mind the obvious with Lincoln. The late great actor Charlton Heston (Republican) was a champion of that cause. It's because Republicans want welfare reform, are against race based hiring policies and are certainly against affirmative action in universities that they are perceived as you guys put it. Not all blacks agree with Democrats.

But if there was ever a person who is brave, it's the black republican. They are alienated by their own race, called uncle toms, etc. etc.
The beating they take is unbelievable. As far as diversity. I hardly call 80% of any race block voting one party, diverse. That's not the definition, nor does it help that race. A republican put the first woman on the supreme court, the first black man on the supreme court, the first black man to be secretary of state and the first black woman to be Secretary of State and National Security Advisor. Bush broke all kinds of barriers in that regard but because he's a republican, they it wasn't news like Madeline Albright or Nancy Pelosi. Rice has the most unique story of all.

Sorry this is long, but most on here have a one sided view. Like it or not, Palin has energized the conservative base and her speech last night was quite impressive. She is now to Republicans, what Obama is to Democrats, the future, youth and change.

"Let's face it, Republicans led the march in the early 60s for minorities, never mind the obvious with Lincoln. The late great actor Charlton Heston (Republican) was a champion of that cause. It's because Republicans want welfare reform, are against race based hiring policies and are certainly against affirmative action in universities that they are perceived as you guys put it. Not all blacks agree with Democrats."

posted by eagle1 on 09/04/08 at 02:13 PM

eagle1 - that is true, good point - but the Republican party is a bunch of dixie democrat converts! sorry, but true.

Thurgood Marshall was appointed by a democrat, Lyndon Johnson! Clarence Thomas got his opportunity because of a Republican - but it was a democrat that broke the barrier.

Like I said - my biggest beef with the republican party is their campaign style - they don't reach out to me, so I don't reach out to them! You stay on your side of the tracks I will stay on mine.

Alot of blacks called themselves making the initiatives to join the republican party, because it seemed like the smart thing to do and fall in line with everyone else and they are seeing it is not paying off.

So I shun the blacks that did make the move because they went running after a party that doesn't reach for them in the first place.

Like I said before, some republicans have left a good legacy. Those republicans are dead and these nowadays republicans would kill them if they could. You won't hear many or any republicans of the new ilk talking about the great work Mr. Lancoln or General and President Grant did for the country or the south.

I can't beleive these republicans of nowadays, young or old, still have the gall to try and fool us about who and what they are.

The present day republicans' gods are Barry Coldwater, Strung Thurman, Jessie Hims, Ronald Pagan and the Bushes.

Let's face it, Republicans led the march in the early 60s for minorities, never mind the obvious with Lincoln.

Of course they did. But then the party followed Goldwater's strategy and switched in the mid-'60s to pander to the racist vote, being that the national Democratic Party was beginning to embrace civil rights. The Dixiecrats needed a home, and the former Party of Lincoln became the Party of Strom. This isn't one-sided; it's just history.

Palin definitely energized the extreme-right base. And I happen to think that, in turn, that will energize everyone else to make sure that an angry, sarcastic, belittling lily-white right-wing party that makes fun of everything it doesn't believe in, as Palin did last night, doesn't ascend to the White House. So I would vote that it's all good, if stressful in the way that watching a car wreck is.

Italics, baquan, italics. E-mail me, and I'll send you the code.

I don't totally buy into the Dixiecrats turned Republican stuff. Somebody forgot to give ex-KKK and Democrat Senator Robert Byrd that memo. Lots of Democrats in the South have turned Republican (including myself), had nothing to do with race. But it sounds good to southern democrats who use that as a race baiting issue to separate their party's past bad deeds from the present. It's much easier to dismiss it as "they are now Republicans" than to admit your party was terribly wrong.

I do appreciate your civil debate without the sneering I generally get from a liberal blogger.

I'd would like to ask though, baquan2000, what exactly has the Democratic Party done for blacks that has secured your vote?

Hate to break it to ya Ladd, but Palin just connectd with middle America....son going to Iraq, pregnant daughter, infant with special needs.... She is us and that little town she was mayor of represents a huge bulk of America. A nerve was struck last night. It wasn't geared towards liberals as yourself, it was geared towards the working family with lots of kids and problems, problems the every day family can relate to.

The tone you use in your comments about her sneering and belittling says it all. I expect nothing less. I found her speech funny and lighthearted.

eagle1, you've got to be smarter than playing the Robert Byrd talking point; that has been tried and failed so many times on this topic that it's not even funny.

Here's why: Robert Byrd *admitted* he was a racist and apologized for it, as have some other people who have evolved, including many people in many of our own families.

You don't have to accept history if you don't want to, but it's still history. Sure, there are Republicans ignorant of how the party sold out, and are in it for the tax breaks or such, but ignorance doesn't really excuse anything. Fortunately, the national RNC (under Muhlman) admitted it and apologized for it -- making it hard for folks like you to say it wasn't true. It was.

But you can learn from the Democrats on this point, as imperfect and stupid as they can be. They WERE the party of the Dixiecrats and essentially expelled them. Y'all can do the same thing, but you better get on the stick. I think they're saying y'all had the whitest convention in 40 years this week, so there is work to be done. Stop blogging and hop to it, homie.

I found her speech funny and lighthearted

I'm sure "ya" did, but what does that mean coming from someone who doesn't understand his own party's recent race history? Nothing to me.

It is possible that "ya" do not own the definition to Middle America, eagle1. Things are changing out there; why don't you start moving with the flow? It's really not all that painful and really quite delightfully fun.

It's quite possible, "ya" know, that a lot of those Middle America families you speak of can sympathize with her, and even like her, and still not think she should ascend to the presidency in the near future. Many people, you know, can hold two thoughts at once. Like her? Check. President? Maybe not.

I don't have a "tone"—except that I'm calling it like I heard it. I wonder: Can "ya" hear your own tone? I'm guessing not. No matter.

Remember, the clock is ticking. Get on out there and start modernizing the party. It's not too late. Well, maybe for this week. (See, I can be a sarcastic bulldog, too. Does that mean I'm qualified to be veep?)

I'd would like to ask though, baquan2000, what exactly has the Democratic Party done for blacks that has secured your vote?

posted by eagle1 on 09/04/08 at 02:47 PM

Americorps, Federal Student loan programs, student meal programs. The Civil Rights act of 1964, brought up by a democrat!!!!!

That's a wrap for me eagle1!

Donna I have e-mailed you 2 to 3 times and you barely replied to stuff I emailed you about already!

Palin just connectd with middle America....son going to Iraq, pregnant daughter, infant with special needs..

It also sounds, eagle, like you want Palin to use her family to win this race? Which is it? Is the family on- or off-limits? I can't keep up.

Well, Eagle, I'm surprised that a minuscule of reality hasn't secured an answer to that question for you. How about how the Democratic party made us feel last week? If I were a black republican as of last night, after watching the republican convention, I would have switched parties early this morning.

Also Eagle how many democratic black leaders do we have in congress and elsewhere compared to black republicans leaders anywhere. Eagle name me one thing or any thing any black republican or white republican of the new ilk has ever done to help the situations of black folks generally or specifically to any large extent. Don't get me wrong I love Colin Powell, like Condo Rice and liked Rod Paige. Neither was able to do jack without some crazy other republican telling them what to do and think. Bush and Cheney ruined Colin Powell's career, in my opinion.

Now, I won't ask you, Eagle, assuming you're a white republican or a black republican, what the republican party has done for you. I already know what they did to secure your vote. As early as last night I saw more evidence.

No amount of trickery, backward talk, deduction, quackery, hoodwinking or other means are going to get black people beyond a mere few opportunists to join that unsavory party. That holy spirit the Lord gave the slaves and their descendants can't be fooled, for it comes from up above.

"on or off limits" jeez, I've heard that like a million times since last night, how original.
Can't a person bring their family to the convention and just be proud of them?(like every candidate does). She simply introduced her family last night. Are you implying that attacking her daughter for being pregnant is relevant?

As far as Byrd goes, just because the argument is old doesn't make it less relevant. It is. You think he's evolved??? Are you serious?

Wasn't it your parties vp candidate that said Obama was clean cut and spoke well?

And modernizing the party? The democrats have been spouting the same ideas since the 60s. I think McCain just modernized the party last night.

And as far as ascending to the presidency, it's the vp she's running for. I don't see how she's any less qualified than the actual Democrat Presidential candidate. That's a good debate but the debate is McCain vs Obama. In that regard, Obama has no leg to stand on.

Who would take McCain's legs over Obama's? All I can say is McCain was a p.o.w..

Walt, so, how did Obama make you feel? Is it simply because he's black. Besides "hope", what did Obama offer you last week? Did Powell, Rice, JC Watts, etc. make you feel like switching Republican, I'm guessing NO. Republicans are trying, and trying harder. Michael Steele ran for a governorship and lost. Lynn Swann ran for Congress and lost. It's a bit difficult to get a black republican elected when 80% of their own race votes against them.

Walt, I'll play along if that's REALLY???? all you can say about McCain. So, having said that. that's one more thing than you can say about Obama. Basically crickets chirping.

Eagle, my fellow American, I can see and point out lots of things wrong about McCain without even mentioning that 90% voting record with Bush. Watch McCain tonight and you, like me, will see what Cialis and Viagra can't fix. Nor any doctor.

Why should anyone join a party that doesn't stand for anything? Where is the proof of fiscal responsiblity, small budget, balnced budget, limited government, wars unless absolutely necessary, lack of federal government interference, et al? Where are the conservative principles your party stand for excepting that one of hating and alienating blacks?

Your opinions and writing style has revealed your identity to me. I miss you. Welcome back.

Hating and alienating blacks??? Are you six years old?

Oh I get it, you can trash people and then say you miss them and welcome back!

Walt, I agree you've just pointed out some of the areas where the GOP has really slipped off track. The good news is that as off track as the GOP has gotten in DC, the Dem's are worse. The lowest approval rating of any congress ever! Worse than W.

Eagle, this sort thing is what I've been scratching my head about today. The Obama I've come to understand this year would be ashamed of this kind of talk. As Donna implores, keep the debate on issues.

The worst congress ever...how about that one?

Nall, Eagle, I'm 7 years old. How old are you? You must be 5 years old, Hayes. Fantasy is such a nice place to escape the hurt and pain of this old hard world.

Could either of you please tell me why we have to have political parties in the first place? I think we should have a moratorium on them until Americans can figure out how to agree to disagree and work together to get stuff done.

Amen L.W.

And the truth shall set you free.

I would answer LW but I'm about to take another break to keep from having another Palin-like moment. Besides, why do we have different mindsets? Why do some people choose to take all kinds of abuse without saying anything? Why do some people think silence alone solves problems or establish good and wholesome relationships? I don't know that I can answer these questions entirely, but I know doing nothing but asking another question usually doesn't help.

I'm out because I want to stay around here a while longer and keep up the good fight.

I think he's leaving because he can't answer the questions....disclaimer...that was not meant to be personal rather a tactic used by men and women of good will on either side of the politcal spectrum when someone "snags em up".

"When I was a child I spake as a child," but now that I have grown up, I now make a great effort to avoid childish things.

I wasn't trying to snag anyone up, really. Walt already knows my position on being an independent, so it's no biggie. I just thought it was a good time to ask since both sides were at the table.

Query: Do you believe in the theory of rational self-interest? IF so, should people vote for the candidate whom they believe will help them the most?

I wouldn't knowingly sit at any table with any such so-called side or positional players. I'm out of here for real this time for a few days or week, if I can. Big things are coming up that require my time.

Cheers.

Query: Do you believe in the theory of rational self-interest? IF so, should people vote for the candidate whom they believe will help them the most?

I think it's natural to do that, but on the other hand, I think that the "haves" should vote for who they think should help the "have-nots" the most in addition to helping the "have-nots" themselves.

The worst congress ever...how about that one?

The only thing those approval numbers prove (to me, anyway) is that (1) people who answer polls are pissed off at government in general, and (2) the American public is way off in the dreamland of instant gratification.

From the Gallup Web site:

"Bottom Line: Americans' ratings of Congress are almost always lower than their ratings of the sitting president. With Bush in a period of extremely low approval, and both houses of Congress controlled by the Democratic Party, one might expect that gap to be closer today. And, in fact, it was for a short period after the Democrats first returned to power in Congress at the start of 2007. However, that honeymoon quickly ended (about last August) and since then, Congress has lagged behind the president in approval."

"There is no native criminal class except Congress." and "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." --Mark Twain.

The titanic ship of stupendously bad governing (7 years republican-led) just can't seem to turn on a dime, and it's naively optimistic that it could with such a slim margin of Democratic leadership.

On the other hand, Dubya's rating is at 29 percent today, just one percentage point better than is all-time low of 28 percent, which has only been bested (worsted?) by Nixon, I believe and Harry S Truman. Even loyal republicans are jumping the ship of W these days. They're clear that the American people have had enough of that. It's unfortunate, however, that most of the American people don't see that a McCain/Palin administration offers nothing new to the Republican mix. So far, all we've seen is a lot of really good political maneuvering, and exactly the same hooks they used in 2000 and 2004.

Wow. The Convention has loosened up some Republicans a bit. The Hill reports:

Georgia Republican Rep. Lynn Westmoreland used the racially-tinged term "uppity" to describe Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama Thursday.

Westmoreland was discussing vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's speech with reporters outside the House chamber and was asked to compare her with Michelle Obama.

"Just from what little I’ve seen of her and Mr. Obama, Sen. Obama, they're a member of an elitist-class individual that thinks that they're uppity," Westmoreland said.

Asked to clarify that he used the word “uppity,” Westmoreland said, “Uppity, yeah.”

That is a code word if I ever say one. Very shameful. But it illustrates what a lot of people do not get. If this Representative thinks like that, it did not stop with him saying that phrase. I wonder what other ways he has expressed his feelings about blacks. Republicans say that they do not understand why they get the rap they do on race, but it is because of issues like this. If the party really did not want that stigma, they would not let guys like this be a part of it. Honestly, he just said what a lot of others want to say.

Actually, it's not even very coded.

Ladd, it is coded in that nothing will come of it. Coded in that people will make excuses to his intent because he did not come right out and say "N^&^%&". He will not be reprimanded and will probably get re-elected with higher numbers than he did before.

Wait: Did John McCain just slip a belittlement of Obama's "historic" moment into the middle of his closing POW story!? That was weird.

He is definitely no orator. No policy proposals. Attacks on teachers. Anticlimatic.

Eugene Robinson is furious over at the Washington Post about the "uppity" comment:

I love it when everybody’s cards are on the table.

A spokesman for the congressman said later that his boss didn’t realize that term has long been used to describe African Americans who don’t know their place. If so, he is the only born-and-bred Southerner alive who is so oblivious. I should note, however, that the last time Westmoreland’s staff got such a damage-control workout was in 2006, when the congressman sponsored legislation to post the Ten Commandments in the House and Senate -- and then proved unable to list them.

The notion that Obama is somehow reaching beyond his station has been a subtext of the attacks on his eloquence, his academic resume, his ambition -- qualities that are usually prized in a leader but that are somehow twisted by Obama’s opponents into negatives. It is within even Lynn Westmoreland’s limited grasp to understand that “uppity” means one thing: Who does this black guy think he is to run for president? If Republicans are going to ask that question, they shouldn’t be allowed to do it through hints and nudges. Just do like Lynn Westmoreland and put it in plain English.

Do McCain and Palin realize that belittling Obama for his "historic" moment is belitting the first black nominee for president? This is a *huge* mistake.

Just to prove you guys are watching with a different point of view than the average American. Rasmussen is about to release a poll that shows Palin is now more popular than Obama and McCain. I'm curious what kind of bounce the Republican ticket will get. She is so intriguing, that as many people watched her VP speech as did the Dems Prez Candidate speech.

And the petty things you guys quibble over....."Uppity." Maybe that word had some meaning 100 years ago, but I can tell you all it means today is "snob" or as Westmorland actually clarified, "elitist." How archaic are you that Uppity would mean something else? I've heard Adam Sandler use it relentlessly in his standups referring to snobbish "white" women. I'd actually call you uppity Ladd, for your constant sneering and "i'm never wrong" attitude. But I'm afraid you may dig up some 18th century meaning of the word.

As Ann Curry simply stated on the floor last night for NBC, "People were crying, McCain really struck a nerve tonight."

The average American didn't see any belittling last night. So what if they did, is he off limits because he's black.

The "huge" mistake you should be referring to is the media's treatment of Palin's daughter. That already has backfired as thousands of families can relate to her. Unlike the empty orator that is Barack, nobody can relate to. People are just fascinated by his speeches. It ends there.

Eagle1 - I want to thank you for your insight. The treatment Palin's dughter recieved is wrong, it was wrong for the media to run off and talk about how unpatriotic Michelle Obama is, or how Obama's thought pattern must be a reflection of his pastor since he goes to that church!

Come on, let's call a spade a spade - if Obama is full of empty rhetoric, so was that garbage we have seen in Minnesota for the 3-4 days!

You know what makes all this so bad, is that people were eating that garbage up so much last night! Playing the wounded veteran to the point where that is the only leg he has to stand on!
Just like a white person will tell a black person about slavery, get over it!

The very same things a lot of white people bashing Barack Obama for and giving reasons why they "won't" vote for him - are the very same grounds they are using to say why they "would" vote for Sarah Palin.

My reasoning for voting for Obama - is that he has a sincere want to include everyone in this American process.

But that Republican base only gives a damn - about upper middle class whites, and all the asians, hispanics and blacks that try to include themselves in that party are fighting for floor scrapes amongst themselves!

Sad - but the way this last president layed it down for us, the Republican congress, senate and the executive branches actions prove to be true! I am so afraid this country is willing to let this happen again for the next 4 years, simply because they cannot put their personal racial prejudices aside for the betterment of this country!

What's an "average American"?

That's your perception of Barack. His color of skin is not and should not be an issue, I'm not voting for him because of what he stands for and his lack of experience. It's absolutely amazing to me people keep comparing Palin to Barack as far as experience. The race isn't between them, it's between McCain and Barack, and Barack loses badly in that "experience" battle.

McCain actually has a history of reaching over party lines to include everyone, a "record" of it. Barack only speaks about it. What is Baracks record??? He voted "present" alot, what the hell is that?

Unlike the empty orator that is Barack, nobody can relate to. People are just fascinated by his speeches. It ends there.

Even if that's what you believe, can you give him credit for telling the media to leave Palin's family alone?

I would call an average American one that actually drives to work everyday, has occassional family problems, has bills to pay that actually effect they're pocket book, balances their check book because they have to, has family in the military or have been in the military and doesn't live life in black or white.

Yes, L.W. I will give him credit for that. I don't dislike Barack, not like the disdain that the editor of this paper has already shown Palin. I believe McCain has shown his admiration towards Barack and he showed that last night. I didn't see him belittling Barack last night at all, quite the opposite.

Just as they say Kennedy would not have been elected if not for television or that America would have never elected a wheelchair bound president if they could have seen him on tv, I believe the same applies to Barack. He's a great orator, could be a great president, who knows. But I agree with Joseph Biden and Hillary, he does not have the experience yet. He's a celebrity, period.

"Every man has a place, in his heart there is a space, and the world can't erase his fantasies.

Who crowned Barak a celebrity? It was the GOP. Anyway, these days it looks like Palin is the overnight star or celebrity - and that scares me beyond reasoning....

He's a celebrity, period.

What does that make McCain? After all, he did do a sketch on Saturday Night Live.

She is so intriguing, that as many people watched her VP speech as did the Dems Prez Candidate speech.

Of course, people were gonna watch. I watched it and I'm not even close to supporting the Republican ticket. There's a curiosity factor in knowing how a virtual unknown will fare while giving the speech of her life. That doesn't mean all the millions who saw it will vote for the McCain-Palin ticket, just as not all who watch Obama's speech will vote for him.

Also, tell me what's so elitist about Obama. An elitist wouldn't mingle with average everyday people who are striving to make their communities better or with those who lost their jobs after the plants closed, while doing work as a grass-roots community organizer, something that the Republicans suddenly want to ridicule. If you ask me, that sounds much more elitist to belittle community organizing.

Query: Do you believe in the theory of rational self-interest? IF so, should people vote for the candidate whom they believe will help them the most?

I think it's natural to do that, but on the other hand, I think that the "haves" should vote for who they think should help the "have-nots" the most in addition to helping the "have-nots" themselves.

That pretty much sums up our political differences. Has the government helped the "have-nots" in the last 30 years? Great Society-style programs and public housing have only worsened things.

Here's an interesting take on the international scene: Palin launches Republican class war.

..."and the world can't erase his fantasies." No matter the contrary proof.

Great Society-style programs and public housing have only worsened things.

In what way?

That's your perception of Barack. His color of skin is not and should not be an issue, I'm not voting for him because of what he stands for and his lack of experience. It's absolutely amazing to me people keep comparing Palin to Barack as far as experience. The race isn't between them, it's between McCain and Barack, and Barack loses badly in that "experience" battle.

posted by eagle1 on 09/05/08 at 09:24 AM

first my perception of Barack - partially his color does have something to do with it for me, because I have seen so many of us judged on our color of skin. I can relate to what he is trying to do, he is trying to live the american dream and become president, like so many who were white, before him. I guess it is hard for me to hear him get criticized and for me to believe people are being objectionable about it! What added fuel to the fire was the Palin addition to the McCain ticket. I don't care if it was top of the ticket or bottom of the ticket - it is still the presdiential campaign. The 2nd person is there for a reason and the reason it because if something were to happen to the president. So if we are going to rip Obama about experience then people should have did the same on Palin.

The experience factor!? Let me tell you this eagle1! I have seen more white kids come out of college and get opportunity because they are bright and have a future ahead of them! But when you take a black kid out of that same college, he didn't do enough interns or he didn't network with the right people, or he just doesn't have enough experience!!

I am tired of getting that tired line from white people! Blacks need experience, but "Palin has insight and a small learning curve and she can step in and be the president with no problem"!?

Let me tell you something if this was 2000 all over again would you have voted for Bush or for McCain - obviosly you guys didn't want McCain back then - so why in the heck do you want him now!? I know!? Because he is the lesser of two evils - he is white!?

He had the experience back in 2000! So save that sack of doo-doo for the next sucker, because this one ain't buying it!

Walt - I am digging that referance to earth, wind and fire!

This is misleading: "Great Society-style programs and public housing have only worsened things"...

The New Deal brought us Social Security, unemployment insurance and many needed infrastructure projects that we still depend on today. The War on Poverty brought jobs programs similar to Job Corps, Medicaid and Head Start and Early Head Start which are providing a badly needed service that needs to be expanded.

I agree with Harry on the debacle of public housing that resulted in concentration camps like Cabrini Greens and Robert Taylor "Homes" in Chicago, but there have been successes also.

The New Deal programs and the War on Poverty programs have made this a more humane country. New Deal also created the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), which expanded home ownership opportunities to millions since it came into existence.

It also gave us the Fair Labor Standards Act which prevents people being forced to work without pay and banned the exploitation of children.

don't dislike Barack, not like the disdain that the editor of this paper has already shown Palin.

Eagle1, you are *way* out of line. Do not ever try to speak on my behalf. I do not have "disdain" for Palin; I don't know her. I do, however, have extreme disdain for her extremist views. And her husband's. And for reasons that are clearly delineated. You, on the other hand, seem just here to personally chide and bash people who don't agree with you. Grow up or get out.

I loved it when Charlie Rose cornered Carly Fiorina (adviser to McCain) after Palin's speech. She was going on about her executive experience compared to Obama's, and Rose pointed out that McCain hasn't had executive experience for decades since he was in the military. Red herrings.

The problem with Palin is not the hours she's spent in the governor's mansion vetoing programs and pushing her brand of anti-federal socialism; it is that she has such a small frame of reference, and has shown no interest in the U.S. until recently.

The biggest problem is that she is an extremist. Hello, people: You can be a Republican and still not want wingnuts in the White House. And if you vote for McCain-Palin, you are saying it's OK for her to make decisions and appoint Supreme Court justices on our behalf because she may well be president before long.

It's not personal toward her to say that she is not White House material -- at least not yet and probably never considering that she is on the extreme fringe of the right wing.

I am waiting for the cartoon of her and her husband with rifles slung over their shoulders, a moose head on the mantle next to a portrait of Timothy McVeigh and an American flag burning in fireplace. That will be more accurate than the outlandish cartoon that pictured Michelle Obama with a rifle and afro.

and Rose pointed out that McCain hasn't had executive experience for decades since he was in the military. Red herrings.

posted by ladd on 09/05/08 at 11:29 AM

what you just said, why didn't someone ask that very same thing to Rudy Guilliani when it came to Mc"Same"!?

He was comparing Palin to Obama, but eagle1 said there was no comparison, when I made the comparison!? Eagle1 said the comparison was between McCain and Obama and not Obama and Palin!?

But ol' Rudy, in his speech, was sure comparing the two (Obama and Palin) of them!

So why didn't ol' Rudy, in his speech at the convention, do the comparison between the two (McCain and Obama, instead of Obama vs. Palin) then!?

I will pose this new question to republicans and their supporters?

If you did not want McCain back in 2000 when you had the opportunity to elect him, he had the same experience and job he has now, what makes you want him now?

I am all ears and eyes on this one.

Baquan, They thought Bush was better in 2000?

Baquan, They thought Bush was better in 2000?


posted by BubbaT on 09/05/08 at 12:07 PM

If you don't go with someone on the first try, why go back then!?

McCain had more political experience than "W" back then, and you guys elected "W" - so now you want to learn from your mistakes and now go on experience!?

yes indeed!

It's really simple, the Rep. thought Bush was better than McCain in 2000, and in 2008 they think McCain was better than Huckabee or Rommey.

Using your logic Hillary should never run again since she lost to Obama.

If Obama loses should he never run again because "why go back there" ?

This "average American" rhetoric that is going around has also been quite offensive. I personally meet this criteria, but I disagree with Palin. So I'm unamerican? Or maybe the thought process lacks a level of higher thinking skills?

Most people I know meet this Palin-based criteria of the average American. We also meet other criteria that make us average Americans. For example, most Americans don't have the luxury of a spouse who can resign from a full-time position when family problems reach a crisis level.

I don't think the assumptions and attacks on faith or "patriotism" towards the candidates or supporters of the opposing party is going to be helpful to either party this go-around. Too many people were burned by that in the last election.

And as an aside, I don't get snarks against being a "community activist." Isn't that an ideal of Palin's party? For us to not depend on national government to take make everything better? And for that matter, the heartstrings-pull for the PTA career-start she had. Isn't serving on the PTA being a community activist?

And then McCain's urge for us all to serve our countries as soldiers or teachers or ministers at the end of his speech, after the snark against "bad teachers" and teacher unions. (talk about out-of-touch with the "average american"...teachers are parents too....)




"I would call an average American one that actually drives to work everyday, has occassional family problems, has bills to pay that actually effect they're pocket book, balances their check book because they have to, has family in the military or have been in the military and doesn't live life in black or white."

Thought you guys woulld "love" this. Take a look at this 'gator hat:

Hmm, is that an Obama doll getting chewed up? Now, look at this 1960's postcard:

We've come a long way, baby.

I blew up the card to see what it said, and, well...

The Florida Gator.

Have you met the Florida gator?
He is the champion negro hater.
Although he finds many things to eat,
His favorite morsel is negro meat.

Is that what the delegate had in mind with that hat?

hey my mother just e-mailed me this and I am loving it!!!!

This older white guy asked his older black friend, 'Are you voting for Barack Obama just because he's black'? So the older black guy fires back and says, 'Are you not voting for him because he's black?

Why can't I vote for him just cause he's black? Hell in this country men are pulled over everyday just cause the y 're black, passed over for promotions just cause the y're black, considered to be criminals just cause the y're black, but you don't seem to have a problem with that .

This country was built with the sweat and whip off the slaves back, and now a descendent of those same slaves has a chance to lead the same country where we were not even considered to be people,

Where we were not allowed to be educated, drink from the same water fountains, eat in the same restaurants, or even vote, so you Bleep right I'm going to vote for him! Not just because he's black,

But because he is hope, he is change, and he now allows me to understand when my grandson says he wants to be president when he grows up, it is not a fairy tale but a short term goal,

Because he sees, understand, and knows, he can achieve, withstand, and do anything despite the fact that he is black!

No, I'm not voting for Barack Obama JUST because he is black; I'm voting for him because he is the best candidate -- who just happens to be black.

Unknown Author

*For All To Read, Please Keep this Article Moving... May God Bless Our Children!

I don't know how to put nice pics like that up on the site but would to share my treasure of "voter turn out" pieces from coordinated campaigns of the Dem's in the Delta over the last 20 years. Lot's of stained glass, lots of "us v. them", and lots of bible verses talking about the "evil ones" please concede nastiness cuts both ways.

please concede nastiness cuts both ways.

Yes, it does. That's why I'm an independent.

I would also like to add that my comments were directed at the person wearing the hat, not the entire Republican Party.