[Kamikaze] Let the Chickens Roost

I was waiting with interest to hear some thoughts from folks. This dialogue definitely needs to be given its proper context. In fact it was brought to my attention in sidebar from a blogger that it seemed that folks were sidestepping the issue..Anyway..two things came to my attention yesterday that convinced me we're sitting pat on this issue.

The protest in Canton yesterday was a sad testament. Because not only is the arrogant sherriff not willing to acknowledge even the perception that there is inequality in his policies, he apparently has a county supervisor and a Canton police chief who have already pledged to stand by and go with the status quo. In a predominately white county, Trowbridge is literally unbeatable doing the bidding of the majority. I submit to you all that it is a known fact that Madison county (and the city)is often avoided by Black folks for obvious reasons..If you read the CL article the supervisor says those buzzwords that to us often mean other things. ''We have a safe community and a very desireable community'' Will we ever see a roadblock set up outside of the Renassaince?? of course we know the answer.. So now because Trowbridge, Johnson, or Hawkins-Butler refuse to have those uncomfortable discussions and CHANGE the perceptions we're left to believe that Black folks are not wanted in huge numbers in Madison and anything more would scare off all the potential shoppers to the new mall..And of course we cant have that.

Secondly, I had a discussion with a promoter here in town JUST yesterday. We were discussing the differences in concert promotions between the black and white crowds. Ya know I always say that the most segregated time in Jackson is not on Sundays but on Thurs-Sat nights and THATS an issue folks wont discuss. The sad thing is both crowds black and white pretty much listen to the same music.they like some of the same artists..and want to see many of the same artists live. But this promoter proceeded to tell me that unless he promotes those shows in a certain way..using the right radio station and using what he termed ''white approved'' venues..white patrons wont come..REGARDLESS of whether its an artist they want to see.

The other disappointing but believable thing was...he said that when he has thrown rap shows or parties he's gotten calls from folks asking (and I s##t you not)...''are there gonna be a lot of blacks there?'' as if THAT was their determining factor as to whether or not they would come...hmmmm???

Can someone tell me why?? I reeaaaalllyy wanna know.
Why did the Spot on Ridgeland once it threw a few rap shows and began getting a more diverse i.e black crowd shut down...only to reopen as the electric cowboy.. country and dance club..Why did the Bulldog suddenly open once that switch was made...I dunno am I crazy??

Oops, sorry Kaze. I read the article and didn't leave a comment because I didn't know what I could possibly add to such a great article.

WE have some real problems here at home..Not just nationally, not just statewide, but HERE in Jackson and the outlying areas..We've got some issues and they permeate through the papers and on blogs everyday.

Why does it seem that one. white flight has flushed some white folks to Madison, Flowood, Clinton, Byram, and Rankin county?? and two. why do the police forces in those outlying areas seem to have taken a vow to protect that flight by accosting more regularly people of color who dare drive through their jurisdictions?? It IS a well known perception that driving while black through any of these areas could land ya in jail. It is indeed frustrating and Im venting..AGAIN.

Why arent more white folks being candid?? Why are some BLACK folks calling BLACK folks who dare sit at the table with WHITE folks in the interest of moving this city forward SELLOUTS?? Its gotten immature and sickening on a grand scale. Think people!

Great article, Kaze. Fair and balanced.

I agree that more black and white mixed crowds for music would be GREAT, I see Farish as a possible place for this. Ezra Brown's Seven has often a mixed crowd, more would be good.

Thats the thing LW..Neither Obama's speech nor my column was meant to END the discussion but BEGIN it..There WAS more you could have added..Just speak your mind..I fear that both Black and White folks feel vindicated and absolved of anymore responsibility because Obama made that speech. It seems to have all but stopped candid discussion. Racially, this town is F'ed up!

These are all good questions, Kaze, and I don't claim to know all the answers, but I would say that it is FEAR that is keeping white people away from certain venues or shows, and the "I see black people" thing that makes them associate large numbers of black people with crime/violence/whatever.

My favorite events of the year are some of the most diverse. Best of Jackson, Chick Ball, Arts, Eats and Beats... it is so much more fun when people from all walks of life get together and enjoy that music that we are all listening to, or that food we all love, etc. I wish there were more events like that, and places that we could all go every Thursday - Saturday where everyone feels comfortable. I don't know the answer; I wish I did, it might make me rich! :)

Why are some BLACK folks calling BLACK folks who dare sit at the table with WHITE folks in the interest of moving this city forward SELLOUTS??

That's sad, man. Sad. How can we expect to unite with archaic attitudes like that? Do we really want change, or do we want things to stay stagnant so we can have something to complain about?

Why did the Bulldog suddenly open once that switch was made...I dunno am I crazy??

Great article Kaze. But yes you are crazy if you are trying to insinuate that the Bulldog only opened because The Spot closed. I gotta stick up for my people -- the Bulldog owner's operated a restaurant/bar called Lager's (at the same location). Lager's was not a hit, so they closed it, renovated the building, and reopened as the Bulldog (which already has name recognition in NOLA). In that time period. Headliner's became The Spot which became The Electric Cowboy.

930 Blues always has a mixed crowd. Love that place.

Thats the thing LW..Neither Obama's speech nor my column was meant to END the discussion but BEGIN it..There WAS more you could have added..Just speak your mind..I fear that both Black and White folks feel vindicated and absolved of anymore responsibility because Obama made that speech. It seems to have all but stopped candid discussion. Racially, this town is F'ed up!

I never said that what you said (or Obama, for that matter) ended the discussion. I couldn't think of anything to add at the time. The article itself is comprehensive and well-written, so I'm still chewing on what you wrote, but it doesn't mean I don't want to talk about the issue of race any more. Don't take my response the wrong way.

It's true the 930 has mixed nights at least when I've been in there. Good dancing & just being there hanging out.

From what I've seen, no one wants the situation to change on either side. If it changes, our old agents of hate and division on both sides won't be able to win votes each november.

I dunno Fat Harry..I got it on pretty good authority that when Lagers closed there was a franchise set to come in (I think it was Ruth's Chris Steakhouse..which ended up in of course..Madison) but anyway the guys came in one evening and saw the crowd at the Spot that night(could have been a concert night..dunno) didnt like the look and said Hell no! we're not putting it here! Thats when the Bulldog moved in..and yes I heard they had a name but coincidentally the color of the patrons changed dramatically when the electric cowboy opened and then..voila...the bulldog. which when I went in one sat nite had about 5 black people in there. If im wrong..then my apologies..but summin dont look right..

Plus..another key thing for black folks FYI..I was told upon entering to remove my shades. May seem meaningless and I dunno if I had a ballcap if I would have been tld to remove it or straighten it but truth be told..and now Im being frank...those things are instituted to discourage a certain type of Black person from coming in.

Kaze: Its time for our Jackson to hold "fierce" conversations, but its irresponsible for us to think everyone will come to the table at once. I recently heard an African American businessman say to a multicultural business seminar crowd that we should focus on "Changing minds, ONE heart at a time," and I really bought into that mantra. Some of us are doing just that while others stand idley by.

lus..another key thing for black folks FYI..I was told upon entering to remove my shades. May seem meaningless and I dunno if I had a ballcap if I would have been tld to remove it or straighten it but truth be told..and now Im being frank...those things are instituted to discourage a certain type of Black person from coming in.

At a nightclub? Not a bank, but a nightclub?

Kaze: Its time for our Jackson to hold "fierce" conversations, but its irresponsible for us to think everyone will come to the table at once. I recently heard an African American businessman say to a multicultural business seminar crowd that we should focus on "Changing minds, ONE heart at a time," and I really bought into that mantra. Some of us are doing just that while others stand idley by.

EatOutOften, you definitely have a point. It took centuries for us to get into this mess, so...

Yes LW..at a bar. probably my last time going there JUST because of that..dunno..

re: shades and ballcaps in restaurants, clubs etc...
great first "fierce" conversation; white owners do not understand why the need for any patron to wear shades inside at night, and can rightly suggest that it is for the same security reason that banks use to not allow shades and ballcaps. Our mothers told us it was rude, and we put that same thought into business practices, yet one side can feel discriminated against while the other fears being called racist, all the while only trying to create a comfortable and inviting atmosphere for ALL guests. It's a cultural divide no one will attempt to explain so the other doesn't feel threatened.

hose things are instituted to discourage a certain type of Black person from coming in.

I'm not disagreeing with your statement -- but you can be more specific? What "certain type of Black person" is targeted by not allowing people to wear sunglasses in a club at night? Is there a certain type of Black person who wears sunglasses inside at night? What is that type?

Do they have the rules posted for everyone? If so, I don't see a problem with it, considering the security question. It seems there would be other ways to look cool without wearing sunglasses. And do black clubs not have any kinds of rules about what people can wear?

True..they dont WANT to be called racists but practices speak to it..and the other side does nothing to change the perception. Just as Trowbridge does with his roadblocks or Hawkins does with her ''no apartments''mantra..you can say its in other interests but they dont come across as such.

I have long since railed against dress codes..Theyre idiotic. but owners have a right to implement them yes. Safety schmafety..they know those rules prohibit particular styles that some black folks do..and thus will deter them from coming..I know me personally..speaking solely for me..I wear my shades inside..thats part of me..and probably wont go somewhere where I cant. or at least dont have the opportunity to decide if I do or not.

Excellent question Donna..No the rules arent posted. two.most black clubs dont restrict what people wear..especially shades..Some have dress codes on certain nights..and there are a couple who use one regularly.Their ''no caps'' no ''tall tees'' no ''sneakers'' ''no do-rags'' policy is put in place in those cases to keep out a younger hiphop crowd or what THEY deem as undesirables..Its stupid in those cases too..but thats just me.

And the thing is Donna you cant tell someone to just ''find a another way to be cool'' to me thats ridiculous and speaks to how we try to legislate individuality..Its not their place...they can do it because they own it but dont give me the safety line..you know black folks wear shades inside sometimes... wear caps, tall tees, etc..so any policy that prohibits that is arbitrarily in place to keep those who dress like that out i.e. young black folks.

But I dont want this to turn into a dress code issue..I want to talk race. race roadblocks and why white folks wont party with black folks..

the conversation is a good one, maybe dress codes and race are intertwined...it makes me think of the book Black and White: Cultural Styles in Conflict (sociology) -- in that book they compare "standard" concert behavior between a mostly white classical music crowd and a gospel music crowd. In the first you are expected to be still, silent, and appreciative only at the end. In the second, movement & vocalizations are not only expected but desired, as they move the musical performance forward.

If you are used to only one of these contexts, the behaviors of people in the other might seem rude.

Hmmmm...

oh..and donna to clarify "certain type of black person" I mean *I* dress differently than say...golden eagle(who had the pleasure of meeting at Sal and mookies) or LW..One style or swagger is deemed "less threatning" than the other..Never mind actual conversation or benefit of the doubt...Dress and race go hand in hand in some instances..and its not just white on black..its black on black..say the difference in the looks I get when Im going to speak to kids at a school and the average person they have come in and speak..My type of dress is more often deemed undesirable in a club or undesirable in a county or city...and they associate that with a specific group.

Great article, Kaze. I sadly don't party with anyone, so I can't answer.

If you are used to only one of these contexts, the behaviors of people in the other might seem rude.

Izzy, I have been in church services where if people were sitting down during the praise and worship portion of a service, the worship leader would call them out on it. "God's been too good to you for you to sit on your do-nothing stool and not give Him some CRAZY PRAAAAAISE! If you don't praise Him, the rocks will cry out, and I don't want no rock crying out in my place! When you were at the club, you weren't sitting down, were you?"

Oops, I think I said too much. :-P

Also, I went to a small concert for a Christian artist a few years ago at a predominantly white church, and I was one of maybe five to ten black people there. The singer was really jammin', but 99% of the audience didn't rock, move or clap to the beat. They just sat quietly, waited for the song to finish and applauded. I wanted to clap to the beat and holler out, "Go, GIRL!" so bad, but I was afraid of the looks I might get. I just gently rocked to get it out of my system.

you know black folks wear shades inside sometimes... wear caps, tall tees, etc.

This conjures up memories of my grandmother, who lived with my family when I was a kid. Sometimes my mom would buy us shades as toys because we didn't wear them often, and Grandma would get on our case if she caught us wearing them indoors. Talk about old school! She said it was rude to whistle indoors or sing at the dinner table. Even when we wore skirts mid-calf, she still thought they were too short. Well, I can't fault her too much, God rest her soul. She was born in 1915, so her point of view on things were different.

Kaze, I'm with you on free expression, including in dress. And I don't mind seeing anybody wearing sunglasses at night; that was a white-hipster trend in the '80s when I was deejaying "new wave" music in the Northeast. So I don't care one way or another about it from that angle.

However, there is the security point, and whether it is legitimate to regulate -- fairly and without regard to race -- certain "cool" feature that can also help someone say disguise themselves before doing a robbery or such. And if there is a legitimate safety (or other) reason for changing a cool trend, hipsters of whatever race are perfectly capable of changing it. I mean, look at what happened to the gold-chain movement after it was revealed in this country how/where much of that gold was coming from. Same with diamonds.

We all have to pay a price for security, and maybe giving up the sunglasses at night, in certain private businesses, could be one of those that don't cost too much, culturally speaking or otherwise.

And it's vital, of course, that any ban for legitimate security reasons is enforced across the board, IF there is a good reason for it.

My other point was that if you are going to accuse a club of being discriminatory against blacks for such a policy, to be sure that it's not a policy that's also in place at some black clubs for perhaps the same reasons. The crossroads of free expression and safety is always a murky one; I mean, I'm the VP of Mississippi's ACLU, and I can acknowledge that.

Of course, I'd think that just having the word "cowboy" in your name would be enough to turn off a lot of urban hipsters. Do they have a mechanical bull, too?

I guess this song hasn't survived the hyper-jump to the 21st century like so much of music of the '80s. ;-)

How easily we forget ...

In my opinion, race relations have gone downhill since I graduated from HS in '81. I'm not sure, but I think most whites who aren't really racist get tired of the race card being played all the time, even when it's clear that it's not really applicable. It's predictable at this point. However I think if Obama gets elected, it will help matters immensely, as guys like Sharpton & J Jackson will no longer be the "Black person of record".

After Headliners refused to let me in because I had on a Mets jersey, I never went back, but from what I hear, once it became the Spot there were several incidents in the parking lot that may have led to it's demise. If I'm not mistaken, that fatal shooting on 220 started out as a fender bender there.

I guess this song hasn't survived the hyper-jump to the 21st century like so much of music of the '80s. ;-)

I remember that song!

this one's even better...
http://www.yougotrickrolled.com/

Rex, that video reminds me of Jordache, Dippity-Do and Clearasil. LOL

Now, back to the topic. :-)

LW, you know I'd never let you down

Well, I suppose as a black woman I should chime in here. I can tell you that I for one was raced not as a racist but to place my race in a higher regard. In doing that, in my later years of life, I've learned that I just may have been at one point, a racist. My father in his attempt to teach black pride, gave me incentive to hate. I often wondered how he could be so close with so many white people if I was being taught to stay away from them and deal with the people I can trust....my people.

Now I have learned that there are people of all races - even black- that you can't trust. It is most certainly a good thing to love your race...whatever it is. But it doesn't mean that by socializing, marrying, befriending, etc...any other race of people, that you are selling out or being an Uncle Tom.....That is a term used to describe black people who turn there backs on black people in hopes of white favor.

I am the first to admit that this is a challenge. My major obstacle with crossing the race barrier, is not being friendly with friendly white people. It's not respecting another race. My problem is I do not appreciate and have yet to learn how to handle the white people who feel as if they have to save the black race. As if they understand our plight better than we do. I feel I can certainly get over this, if white people who aim to end racism will not try to conquer the problem and offer the solution. I feel as if your help is great, but you can't teach me how to have black pride. Like a woman cant teach a boy to be a man. You can show me by your actions that all white people don't hate me because I'm intelligent and black. You can emphasis that you see me as an individual human being instead of someone inferior to your life. Your struggles, white man/woman, is not, has not, can not be the same as being born with black skin. So do not patronize my struggle by acting like either a/ I should get over it; or b/ you are somehow more capable of teaching me or leading me to get over it.

have met several white people in the last 2 years who do not make me feel this way....but then it's one or two people that shake the entire ground beneath me when they do make me feel this way. White people have a funny way of trying to ease things over. I don't want you to ease my struggle away. I just want you to acknowlege that there is a struggle and we can then work to get pass it together. Not you leading me. I don't need to be lead.

And when I say you and I in this post, it is in the most general sense. This is not to any one individual and should not be taken personal. However if it's time to talk about this...then, let's talk. I'm sure someone here may be helped to know that there are black people who feel this way. And maybe someone here who is ballzy enough to tell me that they think I'm holding on to the past and need to let slavery go because this is a new day and age....and then this discussion will get going....

God, Queen, GREAT POST

Most white folks are reluctant to discuss race because it's such a dicey/volatile subject. If you happen to misspeak, or are taken the wrong way, you run the risk of being branded a racist, which, in this PC day and age, is about equal to being labeled a child molester.

yeah, I agree, which is why Queen's post is so good (one reason, anyway). We need to face up to the reality that we all are learning, and we all have a lot to learn.

I also liked your honesty

I agree with you Rex. I can see that. And I also agree that Black people have allowed the complexity of this race issue to drive us and at the same time hender us. I can admit that at one time I felt the entire world tilted in the way of the Caucasian and if you were born with darkened skin that you just had to struggle and struggle and try to do the best you can because you were automatically born into a life of inferiority. And when you are a black person with strong convictions, this of course will harden you that which you deem as being unfair and unequal and thus makes you unable to fathom "getting alone" with these people.

I've learned that it's a struggle for white people too. It's got to be hard trying not to seem like you're unafraid on the elevator with a large black man who you think already hates you because you are not his color...we've been taught that. SO that poor old white lady on the elevator with Kaze in an attempt at preservation of course cuffs her purse and looks in the corner as not to make eye contact. The only way to look into a persons soul to see if they mean you harm or not.

I do the same thing though. If i'm in an area where crime is high and it's a couple (probably not just one - unless he just looks like a killer) of black guys there and i'm by myself...I'd then become the poor old white lady. But, I think it would be the same way with a couple of white guys.

I get that way when I'm around bitter divorced women...

My point here is that this racism issue is that we all have our reasons for feeling like this issue can't be discussed. But hopefully we are getting closer to understanding that not seeing eye to eye is one thing. But not seeing at all is something totally different. We can't fully see the problem unless we discuss it. There may be screaming matches back and forth, but if we keep covering the issues afraid to upset the other party, we will never conquer the problem. We just gotta be willing to endure the hurt and pain and cry together. Because it will be painful to face these things. But pain has never had a more significant place as it does in the history of this country. We build off pain. We get better off pain. It's unfortunate, but its true.

But I dont want this to turn into a dress code issue..I want to talk race. race roadblocks and why white folks wont party with black folks..


--Okay. I've totally been remiss on my Jackson Progressive duties (Yes, Kaze...I felt totally guilty when you called me out in that email, I have been legitimately busy. Just ask Emily ). But THIS QUOTE makes me want to come have a beer, or fourteen, with you.

But, to reference Queen's post (which makes an excellent point), I have a funny story that sort of explains how my brain works.....My new next door neighbor moved in last week. She is an African American woman. She met The Man last week in passing and I was on my way over to introduce myself yesterday afternoon when I got detained by a foot rub (;)).

But, I kind of wonder if our neighbor will think we are the 'Hyper Friendly Race-Relating White People That Live Next Door" if I rush right over, introduce myself, shake her hand and tell her how happy we are a nurse moved in next door (we are prone to injury at my house).

So, even as a white person (and I'm being extremely honest in this comment), I sometimes do not know how to handle situations EXACTLY right.

But, I feel I have an advantage over that because at least I'm willing to admit it.

I have met so many white people lately that have made me feel like the way I started out my journey to adult living may have been just a bit uninformed. I certainly did not ever think I'd have any white friends. Through Jackson Progressives i have actually become well aware that white people are normal regular people. I know that sounds strange to hear, but if you had a chance to glance at the life of a young black girl who went to a private black elementary school, private catholic jr high, then went to Clinton High (boy what an awakening that was), then on to Tougaloo College. You can see that my experience with white people was very limited and my love for black people led me....my entire life.

So I have come to realize that the answer is not to just deal with blacks only. We have to coexist people. We have to have enough love for ourselves that we recognize that we MUST love everyone else. Including Mexicans, Indians....we are all human beings....we have the same struggles well, most of us. We are guilty of allowing our struggles to be race specific when actually they are not.....As long as you are born and have air to breath, I guarantee whatever issue you have you can find someone in the next race that shares in those issues.

we have the same struggles well, most of us. We are guilty of allowing our struggles to be race specific when actually they are not.....As long as you are born and have air to breath, I guarantee whatever issue you have you can find someone in the next race that shares in those issues.

I once heard a black person say about white people, "Your blues ain't like my blues." The way I see it, even if the struggle isn't the same, it's still struggling, and that's something that humans have in common regardless of what you look like. We are more alike than we are different.

Lori let me say this to you and I can be completely on my on....WHY DO WHITE FOLKS FEEL LIKE THEY GOTTA COME WELCOME US TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD....now, do you do that to everyone white or black. Or do you feel like because your new neighbors are black that you should (as the non-racist) extend a welcoming hand to let them know that you don't mind them being there.

If it were me and I was your new neighbor. I'd much rather you offer me a welcoming smile for a little while. A nice friendly hello. Then one day when the sun is beeming or the rain is pouring and I'm running in the house, say something funny or easy like, "It's raining cats and dogs out here". REGULAR. NORMAL. Don't make me feel like you have to extend the hand to offer me comfort. As time passes, I'll see you. I'll see your genuine smile. I will see your comfort level with me and my family living next door. And we will become neighborly. Then you go over and introduce yourself. Catch me outside and ask me to sit on the porch with you for a cup of tea or a beer or something. Take time to notice me. And give me time to get comfortable with you. Remember that I have reservations about moving next to a white family to, likely. So respect me enough to at least feel me out to see if I want your company. I might think you being nosy or malicious for knocking on my door and I don't know you. See that's my point of white people assuming that they can make everything okay. Your idea is that if I go over here and welcome her she'll know that it's okay. But my idea is, it's okay anyway, and not necessary for you to MAKE it okay for me to be your neighbor. And you could just be that friendly type of person. But I just think that assumptions and actions sometimes destroy the connection before the connection is even made.

Now my opinion may be based on me being a very private neighbor, but it is something to consider.

Nah, Queen. You just told me EXACTLY what I wanted to know. :)

See, its good to have conversations like this.

I wondered all of those things that you stated above...and I still couldn't ever understand it from a black woman's point of view.

<IWHY DO WHITE FOLKS FEEL LIKE THEY GOTTA COME WELCOME US TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD....now, do you do that to everyone white or black. Or do you feel like because your new neighbors are black that you should (as the non-racist) extend a welcoming hand to let them know that you don't mind them being there.
</I>

By the way, LOVE THIS, its hysterical. I am a white folk who thought I needed to come "welcome her to the neighborhood".

Okay, I admit it, I totally AM the Hyper Race-Relating White Folk that live next door. This is definitely an SNL skit....or at least a Stiggers column. ;)

See, that's what we got to do here. And Lori, you can call me anytime you want to know how to deal with a black woman....I'll break it down for ya! ;-)

And I am the black woman neighbor who would look out of my peep hole at you and not answer the door....just because I would not understand why this woman is knocking at my door. You'd leave and the next time you saw me (knowing I was home just not answering the door for you) you'd be hardened against me thinking, "black women are so rude and unfriendly". I'd be thinking, "no she didn't come knock on my door...who she think she is". And guess what another failed attempt at what could possibly be a fulfilling wonderful neighborly relationship. Just let people be them....let time work out the kinks sometimes. You don't have to. Allow me to be on the same level as you. Not this is your neighborhood and I need your approval or welcome to be here. Sometimes silence and a smile says more than words could ever say. Try it. Especially when you have no idea what to say to a black woman...a smile is a safe bet.... :-)

See, that's what we got to do here. And Lori, you can call me anytime you want to know how to deal with a black woman....I'll break it down for ya! ;-)

You damn right I'll call you. I gots some questions. I work in a non-proft with mostly african american woman...and sometimes I want to ask them questions but I'm never sure how they will take it. As genuine interest in our differences in culture, or as a slight.

Just as everyone has stated, the dialogue is important. Very important.

For now, with my new neighbor, I will smile and wave when we pass each other.

I have to run out of the office now and wrangle one of my "kids", but I will definitely be back to read this thread.

We just gotta be willing to endure the hurt and pain and cry together

Amen, sister. ;-)

Lori, I'm not saying that all black women are the same. But I can tell you what you DO NOT want to do if your aiming to maintain a good relationship with a black woman. And it's even more detailed in the work place. Hell, it's a challenge for a black woman to get along with another black woman in the work place, so for you....it would be like pulling teeth in serious situations, I'm sure. But hey, I'm here. Email me anytime -

What I haven't heard yet is anything about the anger that some people haven't gotten over that warps inter-ethnic relations.

It took me years to get over the anger of what I experienced as a six year-old when I was one of the first three children to attend a previously all white school. The wounds were re-opened when I was ten and a friend of the family was blown up in his car. I never had white friends or was in very close contact with many whites until I left Mississippi and went to a school in the north.

My anger lessened some as I saw that just as many white students as blacks responded to my solicitations to come out and demonstrate against the university's investments in south africa. One of my best partners in that struggle was a polish, jewish student. He had me over to his house for dinner with his parents. I had never experienced anything like that before. If we struggle together it will lead to healing.

The embers of those old angers cooled even more. As I went into my thirties and made more white and Hispanic friends, after all those years my anger now seems like something from the past. Real healing takes time.

Some people are still angry about things that happened years ago. Some are still angry about the Civil War!

Whitley, I welcome your anger. I'm angry. The point in this is to figure out, by talking it over, how to get pass the anger. It's hard. As a matter of fact, I just got done speaking with one of my best friends who happens to be white, but also about 15 years older than me. I was briefing her on this conversation we're having on this board right now. Her immediate reaction was to make a statement, prefaced by, "you know I don't see you as black or anything...you're just my friend"....so, I prepared myself. She stated that her issue with black people is that she doesn't get why they (WE) keep bringing up slavery. That was a long time ago. Her mother and father didn't participate in slavery. She never owned a slave and thus, should not be held accountable for what white people did to black people back during slavery. She said you were never a slave. Your mama was never a slave. I corrected her and told her that although my mother was free, she lived on a plantation and picked cotton with her mother and father every day for the first part of her life. I ask her, had she ever picked cotton. Did her mother pick cotton...had she ever seen whips on the backs of any white person at the hands of a black person. I explained to her that slavery was directed towards ONE race...BLACKS, by one race....WHITES.

But before I get to deep in my opinion... I would love to get the opinion of some of our white readers on this...

I don't have much time to explain this before a staff meeting -- but I will add that as a white person, I used to be very angry at the white people around me because of what they let happen here to black people. It's why I left Mississippi in the first place. Of course, then I discovered that I couldn't escape bigotry by moving -- that you have to stand up wherever you, whoever you are, and challenge it.

I've also had black people (not many) belittle me because of my efforts, and of course white people (a lot more, but not as many as you'd think), but I figured out a long time ago that that doesn't matter. People always belittle positive efforts out of their own pain, and I strive to have compassion for that, even though it can tick me off from time to time, admittedly. ;-)

But the truth is that our race history has been very hard on whites who did not agree as well, even though I would never equate that pain to the pain of blacks, which I can't feel. Yet pain is pain, and I think that empathy can flow both directions. I will tell you, guys: It is so hard to be assumed to be a racist because you're white and from MIssissippi. Awful.

This is what the white supremacists did to white people, and what the southern strategists (like Barbour, Lott, et al) have continued to do—tell the world that we're bigots because we're white. Divide us. Conquer us.

That's why I'm digging a new Obama world. There's hope for unity or something approaching it. Coalitions. Friendships. Understanding. Empathy. But as Queen said, it's not going to be easy to get there. It's not supposed to be.

I actually thank God for the Rev. Wright incident. I think it was a divine arrow aimed at us all to make us talk. WE've been talking here like this for a while, but we can and should ratchet it up, and continue to show people reading that Mississippians can have these conversations, and so can they.

Must fly ...

Maybe if we can start by dismissing the idea of who's had the most pain and just acknowledge that slavery, racism and the civil rights movement have had it's affects on all of us. White, Black, Man or Woman. Once we recognize that then maybe we can just try to figure out how to help each other heal. I mean I never gave a dam about how white people felt about how we feel about them. NEVER. Never ever occured to me that some white people out there may be embarassed to belong to a group of people who could allow this. Some whites may have been completely saddened that they watched and listened to their parents or grandparents speak racial slurs. They may have even been forced to say them. They may have even been forced to believe that something was wrong with black people. I personally can admit to you all that I just didn't care how what white people did to my race actually affected non-racist whites. It's so much easier to put you all in one category than to try and figure out who's this or who's that. I would just rather not figure it out and treat you all the same. My mistake. I've learned from that. People should be held accoutable to who they are. Not their parents....not their race. Individually.

I often watch movies where one white person may correct another white person for using the n word. I always found that to be a bit unsettling. Why? Because I felt like you all used the word in dark corners, in the privacy of your own home, when no one else can hear you. So why get display on a movie like some people dont use that word or think it's wrong (if you're white). Well, I still don't know that all white people don't sneak and use the word around other white people as long as no one black hears them. I mean the word has become pretty popular over the last couple of years in the hip hop community. Since most hip hop consumers are white...i just figure they are sneaking and saying around their peeps so they can be cool. So, do yall say the word when it's safe that no one will hear you. It's gotta be like your mother telling you not to curse...as soon as she leaves the room you say the word about twelves times real fast just because she said not to. And if you do say it under those circumstances then it that contributing to this issue too?

What some people don't get and what still makes a lot of US angry is that the institutionally sanctioned opression of African Americans did not end with slavery! They talk as though it did. that they are oblivious to history fans those embers of anger within us because we know that the beatings, the bombings the slurs, the humiliations, the daily deprivations, the threats, THE TERRORISM did not begin to abate until about forty years ago.

We are still more likely to be locked up for years when we are innocent.
Does anyone wonder why a disproportionate number of those freed after being found innocent after 15-20 years in prison are African American?
We are still more likely to get longer sentences for the same offenses. We are still in separate but unequal schools.
We are still looking for justice.

That is very recent history. I am only forty-six and I remember when things were very different. I am no longer angry (most the time), but I do get stoked again when people make that weak cop out about not being responsible for slavery. Why is it that over 10 million Africans died in the slave trade, but we are derided and told we should forget about it, but no one would dare tell a Jewish person to forget about the holocaust in which 6 million died.

I recently bought an acclaimed book about the slave ships and I was so overcome with emotions in the first few pages that I could not continue after reading about how a 15 year-old female captive was tied up by her thumbs and whipped to death because she refused to dance naked. I cannot read that book.

I understand and echo the sentiment of my Jewish friends, "WE MUST NEVER FORGET".

Two things to address with this:

Never ever occured to me that some white people out there may be embarassed to belong to a group of people who could allow this. Some whites may have been completely saddened that they watched and listened to their parents or grandparents speak racial slurs. They may have even been forced to say them. They may have even been forced to believe that something was wrong with black people.

My father, whom I love dearly, is a segregationist. My mother raised me to care for all people. (This is a reason they divorced). I do not have a relationship with my father currently for these reasons. I've never compared the pain that division over racial issues caused my family to the pain african americans have felt concerning their opression...ever. But, racism tears all families apart around here. All of them. I'm not the only white person I know like me.


Well, I still don't know that all white people don't sneak and use the word around other white people as long as no one black hears them. I mean the word has become pretty popular over the last couple of years in the hip hop community. Since most hip hop consumers are white...i just figure they are sneaking and saying around their peeps so they can be cool. So, do yall say the word when it's safe that no one will hear you.

I work in social work. I have an african american family actively attempting to adopt one of my caucasian children. I'm all for it. They are the coolest parents EVER. But, when I went up to the school this kid attends in order to speak to an administrator...she tried to have the "Secret White People Conversation" with me. The "Secret White People Conversation" she thought would be allowed because I am white. This is the conversation where she asks me about the "black people" adopting the "white baby". The "Secret White People Conversation" that I refused to have with her. This is how *I* (as a white woman) experience what you are referencing above.

I will also clarify by saying that I am not approached in this manner often. I also associate with progressive people of every color, so I'm not exposed to that line of thought a lot. But, yes, The "Secret White People Conversation" does happen.

I hate, I mean despise the "secret white people conversations," Lori. I mean in a way I cannot even explain. I've had major incidents in my own family, as have a lot of white people, where I get upset about racist comments, and then the family gets mad at you. It happened once where someone (a relative of my relatives; not my relative) made an awful O.J. n*gger comment, about him doing what n*ggers do or some such. (BTW, Queen, this is the only way I use, or allow use of, that word around me; as an educational tool. I know and respect that some disagree with even using it that way.) The blood drained from my face, and to keep from exploding at the woman, I got up and left the room.

Then people were mad at me because I created a scene by getting up and leaving.

I have more stories than I can tell you about being a white girl from Neshoba County. Here in Jackson, during college at State, I was here visiting my then-boyfriend's parents, who lived in North Jackson. His uncle heard I was from Neshoba County and said, chuckling, "That's where y'all just put your uppity n*ggers under a dam." I almost fell out of my chair. I don't remember exactly what I said, but I sputtered something about how not all white people from Neshoba County believe that way, and left the room, probably slamming the door.

That boyfriend's parents never forgave me because I was the one causing the trouble.

Growing up, grown people would call me a "n*gger lover" when I challenged racist jokes, which I started doing pretty early. And they were told all around me.

In North Dakota, I was with a table full of white people, and somebody said they liked it there because it kept the n*gger riff-raff out.

At a bar in Washington, D.C., some (white) guy flirting with me heard I was from Neshoba County and said, in a more PC way, "Oh that's where you people bury blacks under a dam if they get out line." He then didn't understand why I was offended that he assumed all white people in my state and county felt that way.

I could go on, and on. But the point I'm making is that it can be very painful growing up in a white supremacist world and not believing in white supremacy. Bigots belittle you because you don't agree (after they assumed that you do because you're white); "liberal" outsiders assume you're a bigot because you're from Mississippi; some blacks assume you're trying to steal their history, or "act black," or something, because you're working hard toward living a different way.

It is a different kind of burden, and I would never equate it (and, bless you Queen, for saying that it shouldn't be a competition; I couldn't agree more and don't mean it that way), but believe me, it is a burden.

But I want to say that I have not regretted for one moment being very deliberate about choosing to be better than the environment I grew up in. So many people, black and white and other races, respond to you with love and acceptance—far more than the ones who belittle you. But as a young person without the self-esteem I have today, it could make you feel like you didn't belong anywhere at times: damned if you do and damned if you don't. And the belittlement, from whichever race, can shut down well-meaning, and needed, efforts.

And Queen, I understand why it had never occurred to you that there were whites who thought differently. I mean, look at the symbols our leaders have supported, like the rebel flag. I have never held distrust of whites against African Americans because I believe it is the card that our forebearers dealt us. It's up to us to play them and show that we are different. Instead, way too many whites still do the exact opposite, by refusing to study or acknowledge our real history, and I say "our" on purpose, and understand its continuing effects on us today. To apologize for horrible past atrocities just because we're human, and we can. To reach out and ask questions, and to able to see past the distrust of us to what is possible.

I also understand white people's fear of getting it wrong. I've felt that, too. I'll never forget the early days of quietly going into beauty and barber shops in West Jackson to drop the JFP. I tried not to force myself on people; just to ask politely if I could drop the papers. I went back week after week for months, as people looked at me funny. Then, gradually, people started responding, talking to me about what was in the paper, questioning articles about gay people, thanking me for this or that. A conversation started, and has continued. My readers and I don't always agree, and we shouldn't, but we talk.

I miss those days of distributing in many ways, but they helped me immensely. And I did everything I could not to force myself or the paper on anyone. I figured we had to show what we wanted to do, not to blaze in and announce we'd already done it.

Anyway, thanks for listening all. And, Queen, your comments are delightful and wonderful and inspiring. Thank you for being you.

I think I'm just going to say "Amen" to Ladd's post above and be done with it.

So, when we takin' this conversation public?

Let's have a committee meeting, and do a forum soon.

Queen, Kaze, Lori ... y'all in? Who else wants in?

That sounds like a great idea. How can I help?

Oh, and Whitley, thank you for your post. Keep saying these things until white people get it. That's my goal.

We hurt ourselves and others of our race when we live in denial.

Likewise, I believe, do African Americans who put black people willing to work with each other in some sort of "brown society."

There is a journalist in town, and most of you knows who he is, who has anointed me part of the "white power structure" because I questioned an unfactual accusation he made about a white developer. I said that he should hold himself to a high standard and correct the statement and apologize.

I then became the enemy, and he has unleashed holy hell against me because I dared to question him as I would any white journalist in town (ask the Ledger folks). He made it about race when it wasn't.

My self-esteem is such that I don't lose sleep over petty insults. But here is the tragedy to me: Games like this are the exact ones that stop people of different races from working together. I believe that *everyone* should be held to the same basic standards, just as I at the same time am capable and willing to look at the conditions and history that has made it tougher for black Americans.

It's simple. In the journalism industry, we don't libel people. And when we make mistakes, we correct and apologize for them. It doesn't matter what race we are.

It breaks my heart that someone with such journalistic, and leadership, potential cannot see what he is doing to himself in this, and the example he is setting for other journalists of color. I'm on the mass communications advisory board at JSU, and I can tell you the biggest problem I see: young people who do not believe that they can be the best in the country at their craft. We send this message when we don't question people who cut corners and violate the basic tenets of our industry (and we must call out bad journalistic practices, as the SPJ code of ethics demands). And when people who make mistakes respond with bigotry and insults, they are hurting themselves worse than anyone else.

It reminds me of when Melton blames (white) people who criticize him of bigotry against a successful black man, and then turns around and belittles people who want to talk about race issues, or even says that other African Americans who criticize him are jealous in some way. It's hypocritical, and it sure as hell doesn't help the race dialogue. It's playing the race card out of personal convenience and nothing more.

Guys, I really think what our young people need the most is a group of mentors who lead by example with their multiracial friendships and approaches, not to mention who hold themselves, and the young people, to high standards by believing in their capabilities, teaching them skills (networking and otherwise) and helping them transcend race barriers. I'd really like to see us all get together and make something really happen on this front. I'm so tired of Mississippians of all races thinking we're not good enough, and then acting like it.

Of course, L.W. I should have named you first. ;-)

Seriously, though, let's get the mentoring component some major thought. Folks, there's a great section of Malcolm Gladwell's book "Tipping Point" about the level of effort it takes to change attitudes in an inner-city community. Everyone should read it if you haven't. I need to re-read it.

For a long time, I've envisioned a diverse group of successful, confident urban professionals targeting the problems (and self-esteem) of our young people. Many people like to say that crime is our "no. 1 issue"; I disagree. I actually think that self-esteem is. Someone with high self-esteem doesn't feel the need to become a criminal. But it takes a diverse village—pardon my Clinton reference—to help our young people, of all races, have the skills and confidence they need to overcome the legacies of our history. This is a big job, but if there is anyone I believe I can handle it, it's the people I've met in Jackson, Mississippi.

Um. Emily. Totally wants in. And wants to catch up on this conversation soon.

We're reading "House on Mango Street." Today, our journal topic was hair.

Do you know how good it feels to have rapport with my students where I'm that "white teacher," and how good it feels that they are FINALLY talking with me comfortably? And listening? And TALKING? So I can listen too? Teaching is tireless and neverending, but it does feel good sometimes.

Anyway, today we talked hair texture. How they do their hair. How hair makes them feel. Do we have "bad hair days?" (No was the concensus in that class....strong women!) I finally introduced them to MF (who was not there....but is like talking about my child with them...makes me real) whose hair is very red and very curly and how my hair is very straight and very NOT RED (to which I will always be jealous of her.) When I said MF's name, one student comments, "Oh Mary Frances, can you pass me the pate'?")

I get to tell them my experiences as a white person, and young folks are listening. They tell me their experiences, and they know I'm listening.

And you know what? Our experiences are more alike than different.

I've noticed with my peer group, who made me so angry in the 2004 election, now listen. And understand. This is regards to politics, race, religion, et al.

I've noticed that many churches include outreach for more diversity (even Pinelake!)

We've been having this conversation since 2003, and the evolution is beautiful. Did anyone EVER THINK I'd enjoy Kamikaze's company? :P

Queen has taught me so much, and I love her for admitting mistakes. I love that we ALL admit mistakes.

It's time the voices on this forum make a concerted effort to have the conversations in places beyond just this forum :) I know I'm working on some things with my students. Donna is right on with the mentoring. They both have something to learn from one another.

Are we ready to pool resources and understand the conversation doesn't belong to just one entity? I think we are.

OH. And I explained that we've never eaten pate'. Except for that time in French class. We're more bacon, mayonaise and fried crap kind of white chicks.

I'm in on any thing that takes this conversation public. Let's meet and figure out how to do this.

Mentoring would be a challenge for me since I'm so involved in the lives of my sisters' kids, four in total, with ages from 3 months to 15 years. (I just got through helping the 9-year-old with some homework, as a matter of fact.) However, I'm willing to brainstorm and help where needed. I still wouldn't mind reading that book if that will help me help my nieces and nephews.

Anyway, today we talked hair texture. How they do their hair. How hair makes them feel. Do we have "bad hair days?"

You want to get black women riled up? Talk about hair. Ain't that right, Queen? ;-)

Speaking of mentoring, take a look at this video someone told me about. Wouldn't it be nice if this could be duplicated here?

L.W.-email me any time you need help with the borthers and sisters :)

Here's the journal topic L.W.:

Let's talk about hair. Do you like your hair? Do you dislike your hair? Have you ever been discriminated against because of your hair?

MY journal write was feeling "less than my best" at the crime forum last night with ROOTS!!!!!!! And how in the past I never would have left the houses looking like that, but as my responsibilities and passions have changed, so have my priorities.

According to them, they wouldn't care. Hair is hair and people are people. Too bad they don't run our society :)

But you know, conversations as simple as hair, between two cultures, bonds so much. Our common ground....sometimes we can let our "hair" overpower us souls. And if someone has a problem with our hair, they can kiss off and eat some fish heads. (That was my nice way of saying #### 'em and feed them fish heads...they know I'm 'lame.")

What subject(s) do you teach, Emily? What grade?

Let's talk about hair. Do you like your hair? Do you dislike your hair? Have you ever been discriminated against because of your hair?

You already know I love mine. :-) I've experienced discrimination in my peer group. A friend offered to get my hair "done" once as a gift, and when I got my hair pressed instead of straightened, she didn't understand why, and I told her that I decided to grow out my relaxer. Then, when I started wearing a 'fro, she asked me if I decided to go natural and I told her yes. Not too long after that, she had chosen her wedding party, and I had a feeling that she was going to ask me to be in it but changed her mind because of my hair.

On a sidenote, when my BFF got engaged, she asked me to be a bridesmaid, but she asked me if I could press my hair because she was going after a sleek look for her wedding. I agreed. After being in the wedding and wearing ym hair that way for a week afterwards, I washed my hair, and sections of it would not coil back up, so I had straight sections sticking out. I had to trim my hair to even out my 'fro, and I was TICKED OFF!

I teach high school Language Arts. One day English/one day Creative Writing. This is the CW class.

We're reading "House on Mango Street" and journalling, discussing et al. Their long-term project is to write a "book." Their books with have ten chapeters in Mango Street style (they are vignettes....you would truly love the book!). Still working on what to do with writing after the projects. Several want to "publish" their stories...perhaps one story from each student in one publication. I've just been too overwhelmed this week to figure out how we'll make that happen.

I bet you were ticked off! In the eighties, when I was in my aunt's wedding I had to tame the bangs. I can't believe I'm telling this. I had huge bangs. I also had to pull them back for a choir conert once.

FYI...and we know this...the William Winter Institute is an excellent resource.

http://www.olemiss.edu/winterinstitute/documents/handbook.htm

in re: a diverse group of successful, confident urban professionals targeting the problems (and self-esteem) of our young people...our "no. 1 issue"...self-esteem is. Someone with high self-esteem doesn't feel the need to become a criminal...help our young people, of all races, have the skills and confidence they need to overcome...our history.

I agree. A lot of volunteer time would be needed to have an impact. That is an effort I would support.

I guess the white equivalent to the natural/pressed thing would be the way I tend to look down on guys who rock the mullet.

The mullet, huh? To me, how whites view the mullet is an equivalent of how blacks view the Jheri curl.

I rocked a natural at Brinkley Jr. High back in the late 70s ( I'm one of teh chosen few white guys that can pull that off; my kids love my prom pix from back in teh day, LOL)

Cheers to David Hampton for his column today calling for more race dialogue. This is the kind of honesty we need to hear more of in the lamestream:

I heard more racism from the pulpit growing up in the rural, white church of my youth than even Rev. Wright might imagine.

But from the comments underneath this column so far, I rather doubt that an intelligent dialogue on race, or much of anything else, is going to happen on that site. Watered-down he-said-she-said journalism just isn't going to pull out honest, intelligent conversation such as is under Kaze's column above—even if the occasional good piece or column sneaks in. The readership for that style of "journalism" is not looking for anything beyond "argument culture" kind of us-v.them screaming, I'm sorry to say. If they want better dialogue, they need to do better journalism (and lose the passive voice).

But, Hampton's column is a start, and that is a good thing.

I appreciate this dialogue ladies and gentlemen. I thought about this conversation a lot over the weekend and the steps we've taken here struck me with such vigor that I couldn't wait to return. I must say that I have never in my life believed that there was a genuine bone in the body of whites who "respected the black struggle". Some kind of way I was determined to persuade myself to believe that although a white person can be sensitive, and trustworthy, when it came down to the black experience, it was a joke to them.

Ladd, Lori, Emily and many others have taught me a life changing lesson. That you too have a struggle. That there are people who are not black that experience discrimination because of the same thing that causes discrimination for me. I know this may seem strange to some. But deep down we all have some issues that guide our thoughts and our actions. I've been lead for over 30 years by this issue. I have been totally blind. I apologize to your Donna Ladd. Because if I may be honest you have been the epitamy of my issue since the day I had my first outburst on this page. You depicted for me what I have hated about white people. I had no knowledge of your background. I had no personal coversations. All I knew was that you were very vocal about My people's struggle; You always wanted to offer opinions about what OUR experience is and should be. I didn't understand that you have solid passionate feelings about this same struggle that I've been dealing with since birth. Never did I think that was possible. Didn't consider that in order for you to be the person you are, you had to have had some experience that connected you to my experience.

I realize that I may be stepping out there real far by that last post. However, I have been silent for a long time. And now is the time to speak. Now it's time for us all to speak. And the best way to keep this going is to be willing to admit mistakes. I AM PROUD TO SAY THAT I APOLOGIZE TO ALL OF YOU HERE. I've been presumptuous. I've discriminated. I've just allowed my vision to be blinded by hatred. Therefore, I look forward to living the next part of my life as someone different. Someone who sees things in a different light. Someone who does not judge people based on what they look like on the outside. Rather the character they display that emerges from the inside. Ha! That's funny I remember my father telling me that when I was like four years old. It's crazy what we choose to let influence us when we are transforming into who we will be.

So thanks to you all again. Donna, I hope you don't mind me saying this directly to you. But i needed to say it so that I can move on pass it. And hopefully you'll be able to charge it to my ignorance and not to my person. As long as we have breath we shall grow, and I have accomplished, thru all of you, just that. I hope I can offer that to someone else, and eventually we just might get to that mountain top!

Mind? How could I mind, Queen? All I can really say is thank you for being so loving and honest.

I'm going to be honest, too: I don't expect black people or white people to *believe* me based on a few sentences on a blog, or a heart-breaking column or two. I have a writing skill; I can do that pretty easily. I also don't expect AFrican Americans to easily put aside their long-held distrust of people of my race because I happen to have studied "your" history, which I believe is "our" history. It is up to white people to reach out, to walk our talk, to tell our stories, too, and yes to apologize. That doesn't mean that people on the receiving end will always jump to accept it. But you know what? I apologize and empathize for my own sanity and self-worth as much as I do it for any other reason. It's kind of like when people ask me why I often give money to a homeless person on the street (who might be using it for drugs, or alcohol, or a hamburger; I have no way of knowing). I do it because *I* need to regardless of what happens after my action. (And, no, I'm not comparing you to a homeless person, Queen! <grin>)

For the record, I've never been mad at you even during our most heated discussions here. I could tell that you had angry barriers to break through, and I hoped that I could because I thought you were so cool, so strong, so outspoken—three of my favorite qualities in a person, especially a woman. ;-) And I've had my own angry barriers to break through over the years.

But one thing I've learned is that I cannot let go of my convictions even if someone such as yourself rejects my efforts, or even if others belittle them. They are my convictions, and my spiritual compass tells me I must follow them, regardless of what anybody might say about it.

So, thank you for your posts. They mean so, so much to me. ;-)

:-)
Being one with stern ownership of her own convictions, I can only say to you that I completely understand. This isn't about compromising your convictions, or accepting apologies. This is really about owning the truth about how we have allowed racism to dictate our actions, our thoughts our motives. So that we can either act on them or decide not to. The point is the realization that we have these convictions. Some people don't know what they believe. Others believe based on their experience only. And then others believe based on their experiences as well as others. I am just happy that I was able to reach that breakthrough. I mean it was way easier than I could have anticipated. Maybe I was almost there anyway and just need a little push to welcome the change. Sure it won't be that easy for everyone. I'm not saying that all is good and we are ready to go singing negro spirituals on the steps of old plantations....but willingness to correct our thought processes does offer a glimmer of hope.

Donna, if you have time, I'd like to have a cup of coffee with you or something...I'm sure we'd have MUCH to discuss. :-)

((((((((((group hug)))))))))))

<sniff>

((((((((((group hug)))))))))))

<sniff>

Glad I'm not the only one who needed a tissue while reading through these last several posts, L.W. ;-)

:-) Ditto, ladies. And L.W. I did see the hair post...:-) I'm even re-evaluating my stance on that. Not real sure I had one then.

Yes, Queen, there is a beautiful place on the "other side" of a breakthrough. This is what I try to explain to the people (usually white men, sadly, although I know many who are more enlightened than that, thankfully) who come on here and start whining about how we should apologize for the past because we didn't do it, blah, blah, blah-ba-bly blah. I feel sad that they might never know the feeling that empathy can bring, or the internal peace of doing everything in your power to understand where people who have been historically run over. Truthfully, my personal quest makes it harder to have compassion for people like that—although I struggle every day to understand that they were taught to hate and/or deny the urgency of history. And I truly thank God that I don't live in that place, that some ghost of the past starting slapping me around way back when I was little, telling me there is another way. But, Queen, I had to pass through my own anger—at my own people and the things they say to me and in front of me—to get there. There is no greater insult to me than for anyone to assume that I'm a bigot because I'm white. However, I can forgive it easier from African Americans because y'all have a good reason for that kind of bigotry—a reason that people of my race have not done enough to dispel.

I mean, look around us. We have the God-forsaken rebel flag flying in front of *taxpayer*-funded institutions. You and I, Queen, help pay for that damned thing to send the message that you and I are supposed to still hate and distrust each other, and that I, due to my skin color, still have a leg up. I can't stand it; it breaks my heart everytime I see it there, and it says that the frickin' white supremacists of the past (and present) are still winning. It's that kind of anger, though, that drives me. It drives me past both white and black belittlement of my efforts to help fill in holes in my readers' education and to reach out across racial lines. I had to leave Mississippi to learn much of our history, and by damn, I don't believe that is acceptable.

I would love to have a cup of coffee with you, Queen. Maybe I'll tell you about the time five little black girls tried to beat me up in my new elementary school in Georgia because I was white (we moved there for two years because my stepdad was in the Army). And how another little black girl and a white middle-aged teacher made sure I came out of that incident not mad at black people. Those are the kinds of favors you can never re-pay, but you can sure as hell go through life trying to.

<sniff>

The hair thing: Not enough time to do this justice now. BUT I never knew when I was growing the hell that hair politics causes for black people, especially women. I didn't know that it drove black women crazy when I slung my long blonde hair around and twisted it (a nervous habit then).

I didn't know until I moved to DC and had a wonder black girlfriend named Paris. And get this, I still didn't know how bad it was for black women in the workplace who wanted to leave their hair natural and reject all the chemicals and such until I was in graduate school in NYC in, get this, 2000. My friend, who was a Court TV anchor and had been a TV reporter in NYC for years, told me the stories of how she had to wear a wig over her natural hair (which wasn't even long) so that she wouldn't scare white people.

I didn't know what I didn't know.

I thought a lot over the weekend about this blog, too.

I thought about Queen's post where she said, if you are in the neighborhood, don't act like it's your duty to "welcome" or "show approval" of a black family moving in.

It got me thinking why it isn't a good idea to come at blacks that may be new to a mostly white situation and acting like an emissary, welcoming them. It's a way of saying (without me realizing it) that I am the one holding power - and I make the way for somebody else to have some.

Not saying that's what I might have meant, but I get it now - this is how it can come off.

Thanks for the food for thought, all of you, and especially Queen for having the guts to come on here and learn something. I so admire that. There are times I'd like to post but am afraid to examine what I think - not always, but sometimes. So you are a good role model.

So we did analogies and other figurative language with Obama's speech today....

GOOD STUFF. Just in first few pages....

Farmer is to Scholar as Statesman is to Patriot.......

White is to Black as Brown is to Black (new one for me).....

And they have Kaze for homework.

:)

Just my nerdy, teachery update.

And Queen, you made me cry.

Thanks guys.

Donna, the hair thing is such a much larger conversation. But I will say this, I haven't personally experienced the problem with the white girl having long hair pissing me off....I will say that in my mind for the longest time...I was able to deal with non-blond white women way better than those that had blonde hair and blue eyes. Take a guess at why.

Because the blonder you are the more white you are (in my mind). Listen, when i was in high school, it was my lifes work to make life miserable for all blonde haired blue eyed white girls I could. i was a bully. I was horrible to them. And it was because they were my image of hatred. They seemed to be the problem for me. Not considering that it's just hair. I find that even to this day, on my job, the white women who have brunette or red hair - i can deal with with ease. But the blondes seem to have this higher attitude. It's like they are the "real whites". Does that make any sense at all? I'm embarassed to admit that I allowed something so simple to determine how I treated people, but it's the truth.

Growing up when you're told what beautiful is (for most...but not in my household) it's a picture of a white woman with thin lips, blond hair, blue eyes, no weight...etc. So in my house, i was shown pictures of Fannie Lou Hammer and Harriette Tubman, Corretta Scott King, Betty Shabazz, and I was warned that I would be faced throughout my life with people telling me that these women were not beautiful. Their hair is nappy- which was the most horrific thing in the world to have nappy hair- so they were not beautiful. Their hair was short; their lips too big; their butts too big...etc. Therefore, when I started noticing that society was infact trying to make me believe that the black women that I was taught were beautiful were not - and that the white woman with the blond hair and blue eyes looked like what beauty was...oh boy did that set me off...

I was determined to make sure that there could be no mistaken in my beauty. I was going to be one of those women that was undeniably beautiful regardless of whether the onlooker was black or white; AND, I was also going to take every opportunity I got to proove that white woman with blonde hair and blue eyes was seen for the devil she really was.

Those poor girls at Clinton High School. Oh lord they must have thought I was some kind of demon myself. Well, Donna I'm still breaking thru. I really hadn't thought about this either, until just now.

A bit o' blonde bigotry, eh? Don't worry: I feel the same way about preppies. ;-)

Seriously, I hate that was true for you, but I can understand where it came from. I used to say that if I ever wrote a biography, it would be called, "Female, Blonde and from the South," because of all the (wrong) things people assumed about me due to those things—in essence, that I was a ditzy, uneducated bigot.

I'm not worried about people thinking those things any longer, but it took some time and internal work, and lots of good conversations, to get my self-esteem where it is. And may no man tear it asunder. ;-)

For the record, those women you mention are my heroes, too. I hope you don't mind.

:-) I am so sure (now) that those women are many women's heros. I can say that in the last couple of years, I've been better about the blondes. Mostly because I don't think blonde is in anymore. Am I right about that? I mean unless your a model or celebrity. I don't see many blondes every day. I guess I was a BLONDE Hater...Ha! That's funny.

You know this board has really been detrimental in my growth. I dont think you really realize how much I've learned off this one column. Dang Kaze! You might need to win some kind of award or something for digging this all up. I think we may have enough voices on here to actually get a panel together for real. I mean we've been discussing this for a couple of years now. But it seems like we're ready.

Oh and Izzy, I understand that you don't want to really face what you feel sometime. But just look what has happened to me by just saying it. I have been corrected on several things I've thought ALL MY LIFE in a two day conversation. So sometimes and especially when your afraid to hurt someone's feelings, just take a breath and go for it. I think right now we are pretty much willing to listen to it all on here. I mean, I just admitted to being a party to blonde bigotry. Who wouldn't thunk it? And if you want to do a side bar with me, I'm willing. I just want to find out as much as I can about you guys and your experiences. And I definetely want to tell you mine. We can help each other heal from the past and move towards the future.

Wow, y'all, what a great dialogue! I'll be glad to see this conversation go on in a face-to-face version.

Ha. I was a blonde hater. Now I'm, sort of, blonde (with roots...which I tried to convey the stigma to my students. my hair, right now, is socially unacceptable.).

I hated the "blonde" stereotype, and all the girls who fit it. Acting stupid for attention, "flirting" disguised as "oh help me!" and all that snooty stuff.

Here's the deal. When white chicks start graying. Like seriously graying...highlights (some blonde or caramel) or red are the only real choices. Brunette is way too hard to match and leaves patches of different colors of brown.

That's why *I* am "blonde." Prior to the gray, I loved my brown hair. I'll embrace the gray when I'm older ;) People in my family just gray early.