Whitlow: A Gentleman And An Underdog
The Republican mayoral candidate talks about his uphill battle.
by Walker Sampson
Photo by Thabi Moyo
June 1, 2005
Standing outside Republican mayoral candidate Rick Whitlow’s office door on North State Street, I see a sign that says to call him for someone to let you in. I phone, and he comes down and apologizes that the doorbell is busted. He explains that “one of those wandering types” walked into the office, and that since then he’s taken to locking the door.
We go back to his office. Whitlow is dressed casually in the slacks and the red knit shirt of the campaign. I ask him how the campaign trail has been, and he leans back in his chair and speaks about the ground-up nature of it, how he goes door-to-door. He has been meeting lately with civic groups (The Lion’s Club) and attending various church services (Greater Mount Calvary Baptist Church, Cathedral African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church) to get noticed and deliver an apolitical, inspirational speech.
Quashing Rumors
Roderick Reynolds Whitlow, 51, has lived in Jackson for 20 years and is well known for his television celebrity, having worked as a local sportscaster for years, then heading the SafeCity anti-crime initiative and, most recently, as the media director for the Mississippi Department of Human Services.
Whitlow is a native of Michigan City, Ind., where he grew up in a strong family with both parents, three brothers and a sister. He graduated from Elston High School where he was an All-American football and basketball player. He went on to play ball at Illinois State—being inducted into the Illinois State University Athletic Hall of Fame—and was drafted by the Houston Rockets in 1975.
Instead, however, Whitlow chose to pursue a degree in criminal justice and prepare to attend law school. That wasn’t his path, though; he soon became interested in television, taking his good looks and strong communication skills onto the airwaves instead of pursuing a career on the basketball court.
Today, Whitlow is a divorced father of two who enjoys jogging, stargazing with his own telescope, and rainy nights and sunny days, as he says without timidity in his bio. "Life has been a wonderful journey,” the bio states, sounding a bit more touchy-feely than tough-on-crime Republicans tend to.
From his office, Whitlow seems comfortable with his campaign, which can seem a bit like star-gazing to those who believe he faces an uphill struggle, both as a Republican in a largely black and Democratic city and running against someone backed by Republicans who ran as a Democrat who has gained even greater notoriety on the TV airwaves in Jackson.
Whitlow voluntarily brought up and addressed a rumor, heard by him personally, that he was withdrawing from the race, a myth he said that “insults my integrity.”
“We’re about to go on a 14-day blitz,” he explained, saying he was waiting for a UPS package to come in with more push cards, post cards, yard signs and other promotional materials. He’d just recorded a phone drop that had been dialed out recently. He said there was “an undercurrent of momentum” that wouldn’t be evident in polls or on local blogs.
Think Global, Grow Local
Whitlow probably seems the least comfortable on the topic of the city’s economic development. He has said publicly that he will largely leave economic development up to the experts—and that his job will be to create a “safe” environment to help development flourish. He doesn’t seem to put much stock into the (proven) notion that economic development in itself can help lower crime as many other cities have learned.
“Regardless of what you build downtown, or anywhere else in Jackson, if people don’t feel safe going there, the efforts will be fruitless,” Whitlow’s platform states. He does, however, “totally support” the new Convention Center, ushered in last fall with 60 percent of the vote, despite opposition by many Republicans and many of Melton’s supporters.
For his part, Melton belittled the Convention Center during his campaign, telling a group of North Jackson ladies at Bravo! in March that it should be “put between Two Lakes”—the upscale Pearl River development project. Melton has since indicated that he was joking, but he has not expressed strong public devotion to downtown redevelopment.
Whitlow’s economic-development plank rests on the belief that his “leadership”—a word used frequently by Melton as well—will turn Jackson into a more business-friendly environment. Whitlow refers often to an image change that will occur in the city when he’s mayor. “I think the image that Jackson has right now, politically, socially, is that it has been isolated, it has become inadvertently an island unto itself,” Whitlow said.
Both candidates emphasize the need to work more closely with the surrounding counties and suburbs—a delicate dance that critics worry will leave the Capitol City with fewer resources (and political sway) rather than more (such as in the 911 response system controversy, in which Jackson taxpayers pay the most, but get proportionately less representation in how the system is employed).
At his May 4 press conference, Whitlow mentioned accruing help from Republican leaders like Sens. Trent Lott and Thad Cochran, as well as Gov. Haley Barbour, to increase Jackson’s economic development. When asked if he had specifically discussed plans about business projects or investments with those men, he said he had not. “It’d be presumptuous of me to do so at this time.” Whitlow did say, however, that the Republican leaders “have been supportive of this campaign.”
Melton also claims to be linked to Lott and Cochran. When asked at Bravo! how he would pay for his campaign promises for more housing in West Jackson as well as getting young people into after-school programs, he said that the two senators would help Jackson get millions in grants. Later, both Cochran and Lott’s office said they had not discussed such federal assistance with Melton.
Whitlow speaks broadly of “leadership” when addressing the economy. “Create an environment, that’s what politicians do,” he says. He points to the Nissan plant in Canton and the Mississippi Braves in Pearl as close-to-home victories on the scale of what he can offer.
In his platform, he states: “We must also make ourselves available not only to the local business community, but start to think global, and market Jackson on a national, and international level.” Whitlow, however, does not dwell in his platform on needs of the local business community—focusing instead on attracting more large business into Jackson.
Melton criticized Johnson’s downtown redevelopment strategy of attracting Beale Street entertainment chains here, saying that more should be done to help involve local businesses rather than focus too much on attracting entertainment chains there. Melton does, however, shop at Wal-Mart weekly, he told a May 19 PTA meeting in South Jackson: “My highlight of the week is going to Wal-Mart and doing my shopping like anyone else.”
An ‘Active’ Mayor
It’s not surprising that with Whitlow’s background as an athlete that sports entertainment initiatives are delineated in his platform as a way to help the local economy and the city’s image, as well as inspire young athletes. “When elected I would also create a sports council. A cross section of citizens who place sports high on their list of quality of life issues,” the platform states.
“I would work to return professional hockey, make sure the Jackson Senators know they have a home in Jackson with total support of the Mayor’s Office, and bring pre-season NBA, and NFL games to Jackson. When I worked for the Mississippi Sports Council we brought NFL games to Veterans Memorial Stadium Jets vs. Eagles 1995. Jets vs Oilers 1996. Both were successful without help from the Mayor’s office. When I am elected mayor, these kinds of projects will have support from the Mayor’s office.”
Whitlow says a strong sports business community is “an incredibly binding thing” and posits that he’d work to get the SWAC (South Western Athletic Conference) offices to Jackson. Whitlow says he is aware that because of the Confederate emblem in the state flag that NCAA would not allow their predetermined events here, but he said that that doesn’t preclude him working to get the SWAC offices to move to Jackson, where they would be centrally located.
For his part, Melton has not spoken much about sports as an economic force here—a bit ironic considering that his son is a football player at the University of Texas, and many of his adopted boys are involved in sports. (Sister-in-law Carolyn Redd, his campaign director, is a sports marketer in her full-time career.) He does, however, promise to bring a world-class recording studio to Farish Street once he’s elected. He told the hip-hop community earlier this month that the recording studio will be one of his first projects once he’s elected. He has not specified how it will be paid for, but has said that he will bring in private investment to make it happen.
Whitlow has criticized Melton’s recording studio promise, saying that it is hasty to promise such a project before crime is better under control and without elucidating a clear plan for it.
The city’s health is also an issue for Whitlow, who promises to appoint a healthy lifestyles task force consisting of health care and fitness experts whose goal will be to promote physical fitness and healthy lifestyles. He also pledges to improve the city’s handicap accessibility.
No Control Over Education
Whitlow sounds as staunchly Republican on the topic of public education as he does on any issue. When asked if he has any ideas about how to get the governor and Legislature to adequately fund education, he replies that it’s a state issue and not one he has any control over. Instead, he stresses the importance of parental involvement, saying that many parents are asking schools to raise their kids for them. Whitlow, who is a member of the Jackson Public School Strategic Core Planning team, says he’s seen classrooms where he would not want to be a teacher given the disciplinary problems.
As mayor, Whitlow says, he would push for parents to become involved in a regular basis on their kids’ activities and conduct in school. Whitlow is a supporter of President Bush’s controversial “No Child Left Behind,” which has come under fire for being an underfunded mandate. “As with anything worthwhile, the progress is deliberate but steady and in time will prove to be the correct course to take,” he says of NCLB in his platform.
When asked if he has any ideas for schools put in the “needs improvement” category of that act, again Whitlow states that parental involvement and discipline would be key and that his economic development would broaden the tax base to a degree that would pull educational funding out of its current position, thus leading to the deduction that his idea is that lowering crime will help economic development, which will ultimately help provide more funds for schools, in that order.
In his platform, Whitlow seems determined to focus as much on private schools as public—perhaps to appeal to his primary GOP electorate. “I plan to work with students in both public and private schools, encourage them to work together, and get to know each other,” he says vaguely.
Likewise, Melton’s platform provides some platitudes of its own: “Every child is entitled to a good public education. Our schools are the bedrock of our community because we rely on them to prepare our children to be the leaders of tomorrow. It is one of the strong points in attracting families and new businesses to Jackson.” Melton says the city “must develop programs to make use of our school facilities to strengthen our neighborhoods by using them for after-school programs and serving as the neighborhood civic centers,” but without giving specifics.
Melton, a member of the Mississippi State Board of Education, also says that the city must “help school administrators to raise the level of all schools to a level four or five,” adding: “Our plan is to solicit the resources of all of our social, religious and civic groups to enhance the learning experience of our children. We will rely on the experience and leadership of our retirees and seniors in developing an action plan that uses volunteers as the foundation for achieving this mission. Our parents must be active participants and supporters in our thumbs-up initiative.”
At a May 19 PTA meeting at Lester Elementary School in South Jackson, Melton pledged to work with parents and teachers to make schools better and safer. He said the schools must help the students believe in themselves and to act, and dress, more respectfully. “I don’t want any head rags or earrings, and they’re going to have to pull their pants up to where they belong,” he said, sounding a different tone than he used with the M.A.P. Coalition members while promising to help them get their (mostly hip-hop) music recorded.
Melton also said he would help stem high-school dropouts, but did not say how. “I’m not going to have 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th graders quit school. That’s over,” he said. “I’m getting ready to give you the backup you need.”
The Democratic nominee said then that corporal punishment should be returned to the schools. “We spend $23 million a year on alternative schools,” he said, “instead of letting teachers go to Wal-Mart and get a $3 paddle.” He also said that if parents continue to try to interfere with discipline of their children, “I’m going to have that parent arrested. The teacher is in charge of that classroom, and the principal is in charge of that school.”
‘Zero Tolerance for Crime’
Without hesitation and like Melton, Whitlow characterizes Jackson crime as the No. 1 issue, the dam to a river of progress, and one for which he’s trumpeting a contestable solution: zero tolerance. That crime-fighting approach typically means record numbers of arrests for minor crimes with advocates believing that will deter more serious crime later—the opposite of the multi-faceted community-policing strategy now in place in Jackson and which seems to be helping significantly lower crime in the last two years. Whitlow said at a post-primary press conference that increased arrests are the desired outcome—even if there is limited jail space for serious criminals already in the area.
Yet, critics argue, and research shows, that zero tolerance has little effect on recidivism, especially of young offenders who receive crime records—thus hampering their future opportunities, not to mention their future behavior if they are already branded a “criminal.” Whitlow says he understands such concerns, but says it is better for a 13-year-old to have a record, as a punitive measure, than for the child to later go away to prison. Critics argue that solid rehabilitation plans are vital to lessen recidivism in young offenders, yet Whitlow has no new plans or initiatives for rehabilitation programs, but will support the current ones, he says. What about the jail space issue? It will be worked out, he says.
Not a Panacea
Whitlow is showing a willingness, though, to research the “zero tolerance” component and to augment his message with more specifics. “Zero tolerance is but one component of my crime reduction plan, which also encourages existing preventive programs, electronic monitoring, and other successful crime reducing measures. Zero tolerance is not a one-size-fit-all panacea for reducing crime,” he said in an op-ed published in the Jackson Free Press last week.
He added: “I know the way zero tolerance was implemented in other cities may not be the way to do it here. Zero tolerance will be closely monitored and evaluated on a quarterly basis, and adjustments will be made when and where needed. … I will also be open to looking at creative ways to increase jail space, if needed, without raising taxes.”
Earlier this week, after three homicides brought the year’s total to 15 so far (as opposed to 21 in the same period last year), Whitlow issued a statement saying that Melton had suddenly started using the phrase “zero tolerance” in media reports. Indeed, until this week, Melton seems to have avoided specifying a criminal-justice strategy, saying instead that Mayor Johnson’s community-policing strategy wasn’t good enough.
A major concern with “zero tolerance” strategies is the perhaps undue pressure it puts on police officers to meet arrest “quotas”—and it can be used over-zealously by police officers under pressure to perform. Whitlow has said that officers will have the full backing of the mayor’s office, but that accountability will be enforced. “I can’t account for every tough cop out there,” he says, but he guarantees his diligence in enforcing responsibility.
Professor Jimmy Bell of the Jackson State Criminal Justice Department, says that such a case-by-case assessment wouldn’t work under a zero-tolerance policy. “A policy is a set of guiding principles,” he argues, “that determines the actions and decisions of a department.” In that sense, Bell explains, “zero tolerance isn’t a policy at all—because it doesn’t define the behavior of the officer.” Bell said that the officer-accountability measure would not work. “If you want to have an ill-defined policy and then have officers punished for not adhering to it—it doesn’t make sense.”
Still, Whitlow seems to advocate a more nuanced approach—perhaps using “zero tolerance” more as a public-relations phrase than as a diehard strategy. He wants to use it in conjunction with the community policing and preventative measures. Again, though, Bell is skeptical, saying that zero-tolerance and community policing “are incompatible concepts.” In the former, he explains, the Police Department would set the tolerance level.
“When you give units the ability to interact at their own discretion, then they determine what is tolerable and what is not.” In community policing, Bell says, tolerance is set by the citizens, who have equal access to crime information, like COMSTAT, as the police. True implementation of either, he argues, precludes the other: Zero tolerance is reactive, seeking to enforce law through a display of judiciary punitive acts; community policing is preventive and relies on community involvement.
The Chief and the Stats
Likewise, Melton’s crime platform has not dealt in many specifics, other than that he will make crime go away and his pledge to fire the police chief (who resigned instead), which Whitlow agreed with.
Will there be a morale problem in the changing of police chiefs? “Probably, yes,” Whitlow says. But, he adds, “People are responsible for their own morale.” He says he is willing to fire and hire where it’s needed, but “I don’t see going into City Hall and start slashing and burning just because I can.” He thought the Maple/Linder study was a good project, and one whose recommendations he’ll strive to achieve.
Whitlow pledges to hire the police chief from within the current ranks; Melton initially said he would likely hire a woman chief from the Mississippi Bureau of Narcotics where he served for 14 months (and brought in a very low number of drug arrests), but under pressure has said he may hire from within as well.
Like Melton, Whitlow has accused the department of cooking the numbers, but has provided no evidence of such a frauds scheme. Whitlow says that the community does not give apparently dropping crime figures credence, which is why he would want a private organization, like SafeCity Watch, of which he was the executive director at one point, to validate or investigate them.
Is there anything he’d do to make sure officers reported crimes correctly? “That’s an issue of integrity and training,” he said, and he’d try to make training, as well as equipment, as well funded as possible, noting that he could use Homeland Security funds for it. “I’m not going to be holding or massaging crime numbers,” he said.
Talking About Race
A major difference between Whitlow and Melton seems to be the way they approach the idea of racial reconciliation. Melton indicates publicly that race is an issue of the past, one that can be pushed aside now that so much progress has been made. In his “Bottom Line” editorials on WLBT, he would often belittle groups like the NAACP and other black leaders for trying to cause trouble and block progress rather than build coalitions.
Whitlow, however, seems more willing to broach the difficult topic of race as a vital community issue. “Racial Reconciliation” is a platform point for him: “There is no magic wand to wave that will heal old racial wounds and suddenly create a harmonious blending of the races. However, I believe we can have to try harder, more sincerely, and more often. … We all know there is plenty of work to be done in this racial reconciliation area. But the first step is having the will to make it better.”
As mayor, Whitlow said he would start Project H.O.P.E (Helping Our People Expand) as a community racial-reconciliation project.
At a recent Associated General Contractors lunch at Dennery’s restaurant, Whitlow pledged to “do better.” He says there cannot be enough racial reconciliation groups out there, and spoke specifically about a program he personally witnessed where students from Jackson Prep swap schools with students from Piney Woods, and said he wants to expand that activity as part of Project H.O.P.E. Despite their differences, he said, after a while, “they started acting like kids again.” His platform states, “Project H.O.P.E. is not a policy, or strategy, but it’s a great place to start on a continuous journey.”
Whitlow believes his “continuous journey” can involve Jacksonians of different political backgrounds who have similar visions. He believes that he will draw votes from both staunch Republicans on June 7, Johnson supporters who do not want Melton to be mayor and from the two-thirds of Jacksonians who did not vote in the primaries. He quoted an Arab proverb in his May 30 newsletter: “The opponent of my opponent is my ally.”
He also urged Jacksonians to vote for a man with the “temperament and leadership style to achieve crime reduction, economic growth, job creation, and racial reconciliation for an improved quality of life for all Jacksonians.” He added simply: “You have the power.”
Additional reporting by Donna Ladd. Frank Melton declined interviews for this story.
Copyright Jackson Free Press 2005. Any use of quotes from this story must be expressly attributed to the Jackson Free Press.
COMMENTS
Wal-mart sells paddles! 8-)
Posted by:
tortoise on Jun 01, 05 | 5:35 pm
Overall, this article provided interesting information about Whitlow. I think, however, that for an article about Whitlow it focuses on Melton excessively, particularly in a negative light.
Since Iím talking, let me point something out I saw in this article, and Iím not trying to be persnickety, but Iíve noticed this error in the last three issues of JFP. When you are referring to Jackson as the seat of state government, the word is "capital;" when you are referring to a building, or a street in downtown Jackson, the word is "capitol."
Melton says the city ìmust develop programs to make use of our school facilities to strengthen our neighborhoods by using them for after-school programs and serving as the neighborhood civic centers,î but without giving specifics.
I think ya'll might have dimissed this idea too easily. I attended an urban planning conference recently where we discussed the strategy of using community schools as a neighborhood revitalization technique. Check out this website
We appreciate your comments, but the article was supposed to be a compare and contrast between the two major candidates. You can't write a real profile that only has one voice in it; that's not considered good journalism. Had Melton consented to an interview, it would have been even more balanced between the two. As it was, we brought in Melton's views where possible and on the record in order to compare them with those of the primary subject, who did consent. I'm very happy about the result. I think it was the best Walker could do considering that Melton did not follow through on his promises to be interviewed last week. And I believe it comes thoughtful and analytical in ways I haven't seen otherwise in local media.
And I believe that the references to Melton would be negative only if you disagreed with what he is saying, such as that corporal punishment needs to be returned to schools and that parents should be arrested for interfering with their child's discipline. I suspect just as many, if not more, people are cheering him over those ideas. So it's all relative.
As to the reference to "Capitol City," I see what you're saying. However, I believe this is correctly, and commonly, used as a label for the city that is the site of the government center in this phrase. As in the city that is the home of the capitol: Capitol City. The building itself is the "capitol"; Jackson is the "capital"; but Jackson is commonly referred to as the "Capitol City," which makes complete sense to me, anyway. It's cool if it doesn't to you, however. Dissent noted. ;-)
Posted by:
ladd on Jun 02, 05 | 10:04 am
It's not "dismissed," Justin. He refused to give us specifics about it. It's the candidates' role to detail their plans, and ours to ask about them. It's not our role to fill in the holes by figuring out what he probably means. This is a political profile; not one about whether or not these ideas CAN work. It is up to the candidates to say how and how much they'll cost. Don't miss the point, please. We wanted nothing more than to sit down with Mr. Melton and go through a list of issues, have him talk specifically about them and then write about his ideas (as Mr. Whitlow did with zero tolerance). We've been offering that to Mr. Melton since early February.
Posted by:
ladd on Jun 02, 05 | 10:08 am
the article was supposed to be a compare and contrast between the two major candidates
I guess it was the title that threw me off.
You can't write a real profile that only has one voice in it; that's not considered good journalism.
I'm not an expert on jounalism is; I was just commenting on the tone of the article, which I percieved to be negative, and it's not because I agree with Melton. I think that if a person from Montana who has never heard of Jackson read the article, he would probably come to the same conclusion.
By the way, Planet Weekly featured an article on Whitlow this week as well. They merely mentioned that, despite invitation, Melton declined the interview, then proceeded to the interview with Whitlow. I don't know if it is good jounalism or not.
but Jackson is commonly referred to as the "Capitol City," which makes complete sense to me
It is commmon, but it's still incorrect. People commonly corrupt language all the time.
Anyway, on both subjects- it's your paper; you can write whatever you want...just throwing in my two cents.
Justin, the truth is, Whitlow consented to the interview so we centered it around him. However, as "critical" (meaning probing, not negative) profiles do, we contrasted the main character's views with his opponent's where possible. It's kinda common. ;-)
I understand you perceived it to be negative. That's your perspective, and I'm not offended by it. The piece is, in fact, critical of both men. Whitlow consented to several interviews; therefore, more of him is there. That's Melton's choice.
This is kind of a good "teachable moment" about a big problem with so-called (but-not-really) "objective" journalism. Often, subjects who do not want to be asked hard questions refuse interviews. Media outlets that are slave to he-said-she-said journalism with an equal numbers of quotes from "both" sides, therefore, often do not do as thorough a job on one person because the other one refuses interviews. That becomes a way to allow a reluctant source to manipulate the media into not doing a good story (purposefully or not; it is the media outlet's fault for falling into the trap.) This problem was evident during the run-up to the election when The Clarion-Ledger wouldn't cover Johnson fully or in as much detail, presumably because Melton was more unavailable. It's a trap that can be hidden from the public, but it's an important problem to watch out for. We believe that you cover candidates as well as your resources allow; if one resists coverage, it doesn't mean you give a different one less. That's not fair to the candidate or to the public.
The Planet's piece is a Q&A with Whitlow, and they handled it fine in that instance. Q&As are, by definition, one source, but "written" profiles are not. Q&As are much easier to do, and can be very interesting to just allow the person to speak. But they also lack wider perspectives and analysis. We do some Q&As, but without wider coverage and analysis, you get a limited view from them: only the person's words and spin. And a good Q&A is very dependent on the quality of the questions asked and how much homework the reporter did ahead of time in order to prepare the questions. Many outlets that do them regularly do them because they think they're easier than real stories, but they're not if done well.
Your disdain of "Capitol City" is noted; we are, however, are cool with using this accepted and common label for Jackson, meaning the city with the capitol. (We also use "Jacktown" sometimes, although that's technically incorrect as well.) That doesn't mean, however, that "capital" and "capitol" should be used interchangeably in other contexts.
Thanks for your two cents.
Posted by:
ladd on Jun 02, 05 | 12:25 pm
Hey, i like that idea of Prep students switching schools for a day with piney woods. better yet a week. I think more schools such as JA, St A, and MRA should become involved in a program like that. It would benefit both groups of people and help expand horizons and tear down stereotypes. I may just start a thread about this
Yeah, me too. Even more importantly, they need to do exchanges between public and private school students. Here in the JFP offices, that happens all the time, and it's great to watch everyone get to know, and understand, each other better. There's no reason to limit it private-to-private.
Posted by:
ladd on Jun 02, 05 | 4:26 pm
BTW, I'm really impressed with Whitlow's racial-reconciliation dedication. He is "deliberate" about repairing remaining rifts, realizing that it's not about blame and all that crap. It's about admitting there are still problems, and setting out to fix them. Cheers to him on this point.
Posted by:
ladd on Jun 02, 05 | 4:27 pm
From Whitlow on Health"
Whitlow might want to consider an extra step: Start a movement to persuade the schools (public and private) to getting rid of junk food and soft drinks in their cafeterias. This is undoubtedly a major cause of youth diabetes and obesity. Plenty of school districts across the country are doing so (certainly in Collin Co. TX -- suburban Dallas). I don't know how much authority the city government actually has in this matter. Regardless of how the election goes, Whitlow does have the community status to make this an issue - undoubtedly beyond Jackson city limits as well thanks to his name recognition and media experience. Less opportunity to eat unhealthily will help establish good lifelong habits. Every little bit helps.
Hey, all, Rick Whitlow called today and left a very classy message for the JFP staff, complimenting us on our thorough and fair coverage of the mayor's race. He has been a very class act throughout this campaign, and not afraid of difficult questions. He's definitely grown on me, even if I don't agree with him about everything. He's a gentleman, and I salute him for that.
Posted by:
ladd on Jun 08, 05 | 7:00 pm
