Results Watch

This link was on jacksonsnextmayor.com. It seems to be the official results and is updated...

http://www.co.hinds.ms.us/pgs/results/dresults.txt

...and WLBT says it is over. Melton wins in a landslide....

With all the names on the board, and the odd silence, I guess I should say, "who first?"

I predicted Melton with 54 percent. I haven't missed an election by this much in years. I guess all the JFP bloggers through me off.

You know the old saying. "Be careful what you wish for . . ." It will be an interesting four years.

That would be, burp, "threw" me off.

so, barbour has a Bentley?

I saw the partying at the Melton camp on WJTV. Looks like a lot of people will have hangovers in the middle of the week.

Melton said during his acceptance speech that he is working on being more patient and learning to listen, thanks to advice from his wife. Let's see if he heeds Dr. Melton's advice in Round 2. DING!

I wish Johnson the best, and I hope we haven't heard the last of him. Johnson said he plans to get up and feed the horses tomorrow. Just business as usual, I suppose. Then again, an open field is a good place to cry. Nothing wrong with that, of course...

Wow. What a blow out! I quit posting here several weeks ago after feeling attacked.... Just wanted to poke my head back in for a minute.

Where did everyone go?

<insert the sound of crickets here...and maybe a random gunshot or two>

And they should party. They got out the vote, and did what a lot of us didn't think/want to happen. Good luck to him, and I hope he does try to bring all Jacksonians together should he continue on and win in June. And hats off to the Chief of Police, who made it clear he was retiring before Melton takes office, and to Mayor Johnson for giving a wonderful speech - he really loves this city and its people. Hats off to all workers on every campaign and to those who will be good supporters and not be sore winners or losers in the next few days! It was nice to meet many of y'all tonight and have a good night!

Man. Melton and Stokes in the same room. I'm wearing power armor to the first council meeting they're both at. :D

What's scary is that not more than 33k people just decided the election for Jackson. Poor Rick, however. I guess he should pack it in and call it a day for all the attention he's gotten.

Meanwhile, we're stuck with Miss Rosemary over here. Boo Hiss!

Hmm. A better result than I'd imagined... :)

Barbour has a Bentley? You sure he wasn't just borrowing Ed Blackmon's for the day?

The Jackson mayoral election wasn't much of a surprise.

Barring a general election write-in campaign for Woody Assaf or Howard Ballou, Melton can go ahead and start picking out his furnishings for City Hall. The question is now, who does Ladd choose? Melton? Rick Whitlow?

The city council races weren't shocking, but did reveal a few things. For one, they showed us just how powerful Kenneth Stokes really is. He's a force of nature in Ward 3, and that ward will be his to lead as long as he chooses. A lot of people initially thought that Johnson's supposed vulnerability was, like Stokes's, a mirage created by the mainstream media. They were only correct on one account. Bluntson / Brown will go down to the wire. I'm assuming Bluntson was loosely aligned with Melton and therefore may lose the Melton bounce in the run-off. That one will be won on which candidate's hardcore supporters care the most.

Some interesting news around the state -- Scott Ross knocks off incumbent Kenny Dill in West Point, Rosemary Aultman survives, Neely nearly wins outright in Tupelo, and the GOP's guy in Gulfport advances without a run-off.

Johnson made a graceful concession, and will have a dignified exit. I expect history to treat him more favorably than the voters did Tuesday evening.

I'll probably end up as a Melton supporter sometime between now and June 7th, but it's a tough call because I do like Whitlow. That's one thing I'll say for the Republicans: Couldn't stand Charlotte Reeves, but both Neely and Whitlow are top-notch candidates. It's too bad the pickings weren't this good 15 years ago, or Jackson wouldn't be in the trouble it's in. (No offense intended to Kane Ditto--whom, I suspect, history will be kinder to than most folks think.)

I've said all along that I believe we have three great candidates. I think we've lost the best of the three (or at least the only proven great candidate), but the two remainders are still pretty good. And who knows--anybody who can encourage record turnout among white northeast Jackson Republicans and score an AFL-CIO endorsement and score the support of some of Jackson's most prominent black businessmen and leaders is obviously a coalition-builder, despite public behavior to the contrary. Wouldn't it be funny if, rather than a loudmouthed John Wayne type, he actually turns out to be a slick apparatchik in the Clintonian mold. Who knows. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Melton is a genius. I thought he ran a lousy campaign (guess he showed me) and I wouldn't vote for him over Johnson, but I'm not crazy enough to underestimate the man.

What's clear is that Frank Melton is the Democrat in this race now, so the core party loyalists who backed Johnson have a tough choice ahead of them. Donna and I are both more-or-less independent, but I know most of the rank-and-file yellow dog Democrats who run the party supported Johnson, and in fact formed his base. What are they going to do now?

We live in interesting times.

Not quite as interesting as the JFPers who are out at the watering hole right now, though, I reckon. Bars make me nervous (the only real reason I'm not there), but it's 2am and I haven't heard from anybody who got back yet, which tells me they're probably still out doing their thing, Johnson victory or no Johnson victory. Shades of How the Grinch Stole Christmas. God bless 'em all, and I'll raise my quart of Crystal Light in a toast to Jackson on their behalf. I think we've got great years ahead of us regardless of who sits in the mayor's office.


Cheers,

TH

Whoops--missed your post, tortoise. Good analysis!

You too, Sny. Nicely done.


Cheers,

TH

I just noticed something that, I think, speaks volumes about why Harvey Johnson lost so badly: the number of comments on this web site about his profile article (17) versus the number of comments on Frank Melton's (250). Doesn't that say it all? People want to be excited about a candidate, and people were certainly excited about Melton (and I am including, among the excited, those who didn't vote for him... he evokes passionate opinion, for better or for worse).

I read the Johnson article in paper version. But, I guess everyone thought they knew Johnson and wanted to get to know Melton better. The excitement was around Melton, and being realitively unknown (at least to many of us) more readers here wanted to peek at that story last week. Oh yeah, I think post activity have something to do with how many views you will get too.

OK. So barring a Republican win in June (to offset the Republican win last night), I will expect the following within one year:
1. 50% decrease in all crimes across the board
2. Destruction of all substandard housing within the city limits.
3. Construction of all necessary moderately priced, single-family, easily financed, privately owned homes throughout the city.
4. Repaving and widening of all streets, lanes, alleys, avenues and interstate on-off ramps and feeders.
5. A complete revamp of local education and the attainment of Level 4 or better at every Jackson Public School.
6. The GOPette ability to walk/jog the streets of their recently ungated neighborhoods without the blinding fear that they might see someone needing to be profiled.
7. A complete reversal of emigration to the suburbs which results in a swelling white population, increased public revenues, and another racial majority shift.

In 4 years I will expect to see a human utopia in which GOPers and GOPettes make up 50% of the population, take over the city, and overtly run it instead of from behind the scenes.

I'm curious why every time I read or hear about Melton's victory party, there is a need to keep stressing there were "blacks and whites, young and old." (C-L)... I've read a few more on various sites including Wilson's post over at JNM.

Is it really shocking to see whites and blacks (young and old) in the same room for some of these people including journalists? Some people need to get out more!

Regardless, GDI, I'm with you... I was literally excited last night because I've been told in so many words:
- Crime will drop (I've already set expectations of 20% in the first year)
- No more blight! Yay! Frank, I've got a few I'd like you to come plow in my neighborhood... Let me know when you make it my way. I'm going to hold you to this one!
- And damnit! I want a multi-million dollar recording studio and ol' sweat-lipped Whitney singing by year's end ("Bobby, get me that pipe!")....

OK... Mostly jest and jabs.... But, I've been told it'll all happen under Melton.

I expect the critics (on both sides) to remain critical and not become lazy on pushing for progress in this city regardless of the candidate they endorsed, financially backed, or voted for...

How's this for a Marshall Ramsey cartoon?

1) Johnson hands his to-do list over to Melton, then snatches his lasso and yells, "It's my turn now, G-D-it!"
2) Chief Moore is seen hijacking the JPD Party RV wearing sunglasses, a gold chain and a Hawaiian shirt with a butterfly collar.
3) R2D2 gets decimated by RoboCop.

I have a sick imagination...

Oh, and props to Donna for writing the C-L and letting them know the JFP is independent and impartial! We must add too. Also, we will expect to see the Chamber and the City Hall come out for a picture holding hands. And, now that the County should be appeased can we have our radios, our road paving money, and their support for Jackson's progress in the form of responsible representation.

Know what frightens me almost as much as the Melton win? The fact that Melton won with 40,973 votes (unofficial) were cast in a city with an estimated voting age population of 131,713. Now I know that this was only the Democratic Primary, but without a GOPer primary to compete for votes and with as much ìexcitementî as has been noted in this election, wouldnít you think we would have a little better than a 31% turnout?

Further, as has also been noted here, the media is making a big play about Meltonís ìcoalitionî win. Letís see, Melton got 63% of the 31% turnout. Meaning he got support from 19.7% of the voting age population. I bet when precinct numbers are brought forward and analyzed youíll see a coalition that, while still there, is not as broad as they would like to brag about.

Some observations: 1) Johnson made a gracious speech. He's a good guy and a steady administrator, just not a very good baby-kissing, back-slapping politician. That's the way the system works. 2) Melton doesn't have to save the world, he just has to do a better job than Johnson to be a success. All politicians over promise and under deliver. Not a single one of them has ever under promised and over delivered in the history of the world. 3) I kept laughing and watching all the folks behind Melton on their cell phones. What were they saying? "Hey, man, I got a new job!" 4) Melton's comment "I love the kids at Lanier, I love the kids at Murrah, I love the kids at JA, I love the kids at Prep" set a great tone of unity for Jackson. He won because he reached out to everybody. 5) Enough already about "whites and blacks" in the same room celebrating. Let's quit being obsessed with skin color. Would this seem strange on TV?, "And yes Howard the great thing is we see brunettes and blonds in the same room talking and partying together. Isn't that remarkable." Enough already. Let's quite obsessing on race, it just demeans us all to the ultimate in superficiality.

Local elections always have lousy turnout. It's a sad commentary on how people look to federal government for everything. Centralization of government is not a good thing, but it has become a hallmark of our nation.

Wyatt, I couldn't agree more about the obsessing of blacks and whites in the same room. While it does highlight leaps from our past, it's nothing new to me and it's not shocking at all... Hell, most of the Melton supporters I know wouldn't be surprised by a room full of colorful faces. I'm simply laughing that it's even worth mentioning in the C-L or by Wilson Carrol.

As for local turnout, I was a little let down but not surprised. It's sad when all you hear is people nagging about something in this city and they can't even take 5mns out of their day to ATTEMPT to make a difference. Sad. Very sad.

Yes Wyatt, I know local elections have lousy turnout. My point was similar to Knol's. For all the bitching and moaning and excitement and controversy, you would think we would have a better turnout. Further, for all the media hype about the unity and broad coalition around Melton (which you, Wyatt, perpetuate even while saying we should not obsess on race) is likely to not be so broad-based considering his 19% actual support.

As to "I love the kids at Lanier, I love the kids at Murrah, I love the kids at JA, I love the kids at Prep..." how often did Commander Frank run a fully armed swat team into JA and Prep?
Unity, my a$$.

BTW, Prep is not IN Jackson.

GDI: What's your point? Prep always has, and likely always will, have many, many students (perhaps an overwhelming majority) of its students coming from within the city limits of Jackson.

Yes, Prep is technically in Flowood, which is why JA students have always referred to Prep as Flowood Tech. Oh the mischevious games of prep schoolers.

I know you want to quit obsessing about race; but, even your own paper doesn't pass the smell test for diversity. Having a picture of four boys from Boyd doesn't make your paper a gathering place for all of Jackson much less the changing demos of NEJax (drink!). BTW: I had a bad experience with your newspaper just stopping by your office to get information on how to announce a wedding with NSun (drink). I was told to go look at the sample copy to the left of your window and then to go on line and email the paper if I decided what to do! Didnít offer me a copy to take home nor did they offer to sell me one ñ not that I asked to buy one. Then it dawned on me. I was in work clothes, dirty, and unshaven. I guess I didn't meet the smell test for your staff to even consider me a worthy advertiser/wedding poster/reader! I'm not knocking you personally, and I don't want an apology for how I was treated by your staff; but, I do not think you should go around telling people not to talk (obsess) about race. Nope it is the other way around. We need more talk, less misconceptions, less fear, and more openness! I want to see your paper, and the Jackson VIP open up and become more diverse. The ball is in your court if you say Jackson is as diverse as you say, then letís see it in your own newspaper.

Just reiterating that Melton is the candidate of and has his heart with those who are really not with the city. I note you completely skipped over my question about swat teams charging into JA and Prep. Yeah, there are some REAL mischievous things going on in prep schools but a lot of people like Melton and his suburbwannabees will continue to ignore them.

GDI: I have no earthly idea what you are even referring to concerning SWAT teams. If your suggestion is that a raid is needed at those two schools, then I'm not sure how I would reply to that, other than to say we must be from different planets.

If you have no idea about SWAT teams in our schools under your man Commander Frank, then no, you have 1) no clue, 2) no knowledge of Jackson history, and 3) no understanding of your candidate.

Obviously we are from different planets and I have been paying attention.

http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0308/27/l01.html

Letter from Melton to the C-L, in which he states that reports that he used SWAT teams in schools are inaccurate and irresponsible.

Believe it or not - don't care one way or the other. Just providing the link if you wanted to see the other side of the story on the matter.

To Tortoise: We will be most happy to run your wedding announcement in the Sun. We run all the wedding announcements submitted to us and we run all the local news submitted to us regardless of race.

I apologize if you received shabby treatment from our receptionist and I if you call me 601-977-0470, I will try to correct the situation.

BTW, one reason I still wear suits (when it's not blazing hot) is because everywhere I go, I am treated better. When I wear casual clothes I notice a distinict worsening of respect. When I wear jeans and a T-shirt people treat me very, shall we, say casually. It's also the reason I shave every day.

As for me saying Melton's a unifier--that's not some code word for racial reconciliation. Our societal divisions are religious, income, sports preference, school loyalty, ad infinitum. Thinking that by "unifier" I mean race is just one more example of this obsession with skin color.

It's all good Wyatt, my wedding was a while ago now. And, I shouldn't use the JFP to vent with you. Sorry readers for the TMI! Thank you for your concern and help, I know you are a good person and community supporter, please don't take me wrong. But, I think my example shows we need to open our minds a whole lot more regardless of race, how you dress, and where you live. Maybe a few more props for the children at Chastain, Boyd, McLeod, Spann and then some pictures from gatherings that are mainly African-American fundraisers or galas would do wonders to remind NEJax (drink) that this city is moving toward better diversity. And I really want to see that from everyone, including myself. Thanks again Wyatt for the help.

Speaking of unification... Still waiting on Melton and Whitlow to respond to Equality Mississippi's questions posed to the candidates regarding issues that affect the GLBT community in Jackson. Seems neither are in too much of a rush to unify the GLBT and straight communities. And from what I understand Johnson was not responsive for his many years which pisses me off to no end!

And if real estate and tax-base are issues, ask any real estate agent one of the keys to predicting an upcoming neighborhood with "good" property values... Answer? Gay couples and individuals... Seems a healthy component to revitalizing our neighborhoods would be to encourage the GLBT community to come into the city and buy homes and settle down. We're also fabulous decorators and landscapers if the stereotypes hold true. ;-)

According to census data, Mississippi has one of the highest percentages of GLBT couples and GLBT couples with children and black GLBT couples. You want to see neighborhoods revitalized, it would be smart to court a community with expendible incomes and a record of increasing community and property values.

But with a Democrat being backed by a large number of Republicans and a Rupublican (that uses Bush quotes in his newsletters) in the last leg, I don't see either courting what could be an excellent component in helping revitalize this city!

OK... I'll give the GLBT rant a break. ;-)

From the letter by Melton:

Next, I do not, nor does the Bureau of Narcotics, work for The Clarion-Ledger and we have no obligation to tell your reporters who has been arrested. On the other hand, your reporters should know how to access the information. We are not going to do your job for you.

Hope he works much harder to help provide data to the media than this... Being serious and not just jabbing.

Still, I like this quote a lot and applaud Melton for saying this:

Reporters need to learn how to do their homework, get the facts straight, and inform the public. That is what they get paid for.

Unfortunately, it fell on deaf ears. ;-)

Mornin' all (of a fashion) ...

Yes, my friends, the golden margs flowed freely, as did the conversation the evening of May 3, Two Thousand and Five, in that little haven of all things social we call Hal & Mal's. The North Jackson Angry Men's Club was there, as was the campaign staff for Harvey Johnson, as was the Election Loungeóall gathered in one fine establishment. So much fun was had by all that this editor, this leader of the Jackson blogosphere, slept in late this morning.

But now that I have returned to the Information Superhighway on the Internets, I have an important announcement to make to the hard-working citizens of this great capitol of the Magnolia State. Because the Bold New City in the heart of the Best of the New South is now set to have a "sound-bite mayor" straight out of TV-land in just a few weeks (one way or the other), Ióafter great consideration and one very restful nightóhave come to the painful conclusion that, from now on, I will only blog in sound bites. That's right: sound bites.

What's more, in this new Golden Age of the Sound Bite, I will only respond to sound bites to the best of my ability. I know the citizens of Jackson are ready for a changeóa CHANGE, I tell youóand some leadershipóLEADERSHIP, I tell youóin the local blogosphere, and at the end of the day, I am your woman. I am your leader. The help is no longer on its way; it has ARRIVED. It is simply no perception: I am up to the task of speaking only ... in ... SOUND ... BITES. You have my pledge that ... many and varied sound bites are on the way.

Let's go to the videotape ...

The fine Mr. Emmerich, he who hails from such a rich journalism family here in the great state of Mississippi, declared above just last night:

You know the old saying. "Be careful what you wish for . . ." It will be an interesting four years.

Now, I tell you, Mr. Wyatt Emmerich, those are fine sound bites of which your journalism heritage would surely be proud. They will be part of your legacy. And the new leadership of this city thanks you for helping us, with your non-endorsement endorsements and your plugs for Republicans to be sure and get out vote as Democrats just this timeójust like the great Mr. Billy Moungeróto ensure that sound-bite leadership is here to stay! Thank you, thank you, sir, for everything you've done.

Let's roll another one from Mr. Emmerich:

Let's quite obsessing on race, it just demeans us all to the ultimate in superficiality.

Now, in addition to the rules of Missy Kateóa fine bartendress from a even finer Jackson familyóthat declare that I must take a drink every time I hear this cliche repeatedóand I follow the rules, let me tell you, my friendsólet me declare to you, Mr. Emmerich, that if you really meant this particular sentiment, your "Northside" newspaper would also serve the affluent residents of NorthWEST Jackson in addition to NorthEAST Jackson. I am just saying, Sir. And, yes, you may quote me that.

Otherwise, Mr. Emmerich, friend, your sentiment rings a bit hollow, but you're a fine gentleman, and a scholar, anyway. Personally, here at the new Church of the Holy Sound Bite, in the Platinum Age of the Sound Bite, we prefer the old Richard Wright saying, and we paraphrase: We must continue talking about race until we don't have to anymore. And dear Mr. Emmerich, there is no evidence yet to support that we don't have to anymore. So, feel free, sir, to step outside this blog if our fine discussions of issues pertinent to this great community irk you, sir. Otherwise, the rest of us will carry on without you, although you will be sorely missed.

OK, Capitol Gang, that's all the sound bites I can muster for now. Stay tuned for the next round of the Greatest Sound Bites from Cowboy's Bold New City, Part I. You know, here in Jackson we have never met a sound bite that we didn't like, or at least believe if it was somehow attached to the crime problem.

Y'all come back now, you hear.

<grin>

Lawd! You sure those 'ritas are out of your system? ;-)

<giggle>

Sore loser.

But glad you survived and are back in the saddle.

I tell you what. You blog in sound bites and I'll blog in maxims.

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

If y'all can blog in sound bites and maxims, I'm blogging in sign language from now on... ;-)

Stand back everyone! Make a circle - give'em room! ;-)

It should be "throw shoes," Wyatt, not stones. We don't have any stones in our house...but there are an inordinate number of shoes.

Such enchanting, intellectual discussions.

I'm amazed. :)

My one and only post-primary sound bite, good for the results or rational governing: "It's over!"

Mayor Johnson was a victim of "after the love is gone, what used to be right is now wrong." He couldn't find a way to "bring any loving here today." Surely he will be preaching in four years that "only love can conquer hate" as he tries to retake and finish the job he started earlier. I can't deny that it's interesting to see a grown sixty-something year old man who still is crazy enough to think he can bring about instant and enduring change. What's going on? Can anybody tell me where we can find "any love?"

Sore loser.

Not sore, exactly, but a little dry-mouth. As Jakob would say: Playing hurt. ;-)

Other bites:

For Wyatt: Ride em', Cowboy ... or alternatively ... Draw!

For Ray: Can't Buy Me (my) Love

Todd: She who dies with the most shoes wins. (So leave my damn shoes alone.)

Whitlow's sound-bite strategy to "Run like the dickens" takes on a whole new meaning facing a Cowboy yelling "Draw!"

Where are all the Kenny Stokes' haters. Why are they so quiet? Where is Buck and Black Man? Kenneth rides again by a landslide! How about those rhymes?

Didn't expect anything less.
Unfortunately.

So far, y'all are too kind. No one has jumped me yet for my grammatical error. I didn't want to make any errors as I wrote about my friend, Kenneth. Needless to say, I can't spell worth a crap either.

Such attacks would be against the posting guidelines.

Thank God for that!

Kenneth rides again by a landslide!

Kenny and Frank take City Hall (back?). Perhaps we should start caling them the Mill Street Posse. ;-D

Fool me once, fool me twice ... you know what they say. Fun will be had in City Hall.

Eric Stringfellow today:

Just as striking as Johnson's ouster was Ward 3 Councilman Kenneth I. Stokes' triumph. Stokes trounced three challengers to win a fifth term. Two other incumbent council members were headed into runoffs.

This SURPRISED him??? Huh?

Election results suggest that voters have different standards for mayors and City Council members.

How is that? Don't Melton and Stokes have a whole lot in common, style-wise, including a friendship?

In Ward 4, incumbent Bo Brown was losing to Frank Bluntson, a radio personality and retired Youth Court administrator. That race will be decided in two weeks with a runoff.

No mention at all of the circumstances surrounding Mr. Bluntson's leaving the youth center?

Police Chief Robert Moore is out. The chill between City Hall and its next-door-neighbor, the MetroJackson Chamber of Commerce, will thaw. Melton's administration will reflect his campaign coalition, which included northeast and west Jackson. But more than anything, hope has returned to Jackson.

Them there's some sound bites. <whistles>

My turn: Fear is a four-letter word. ... OR ... We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Donna,

I saw that the C-L published your letter to the editor today. How do you feel about it being the last letter printed in the inner fold of the paper as a small narrow column that folks will barely see? Personally, I would be insulted. (I also wonder if Aaron McGruder would be insulted if he knew that his "Boondocks" comic strip would be published WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY at the bottom of the page under the bridge playing tips. Does anyone still play bridge?)

Hey, I'm just surprised they published it ... and in only two days. ;-)

oh lots of people still play bridge. and not just old ladies. bridge is for the kids these days!

Grin.

Also, L.W., I assume they published it because they realized I had a point. After all, the reporter didn't ask me, as the "media outlet" other than talk radio, which was called out separately, if I wrote the piece as a "last-minute" favor to the mayor. That was patently ridiculous, but it was a good *sound bite* for Mr. Melton.

Letter linked here

BTW, Boondocks is the only strip I read. Skewers everybody! Love it.

Anybody watching "Sometimes in April" on PBS? Seeing those Rwandan soldiers in uniform makes me think about the SWAT team comments. Can someone give me some background on that issue?

No, but I should be. Anyone here seen "Hotel Rwanda"? How is it? I missed it in theaters, as I tend to do these days unless it's Crossroads. ;-) It's probably out on DVD, eh?

I believe it is, but I'm not positive.

Had to change the channel - heart couldn't take it...

BTW, I haven't even called out Todd's hilarious "election returns" (above) from last night when the rest of us were already out at the Election Lounge:

Here I was all impressed with the Jackson Channel -- smitten? should I use the word "smitten"? -- and it suddenly occurs to me that all their doing is cribbing the Hinds County numbers. Talk about a let down...it's like figuring out that chick you've got a crush on cheated on her civil service exam and shouldn't even be employed by the U.S. government, much less your own, personal mail carrier. But the way those hips sway in those polyester shorts...

Chortle! My Todd is hilarious ...

My wife does the shoe thing to. I don't get it. How many shoes can you wear? Somebody explain the shoe thing to me.

I am so happy to finally have something worthwhile to contribute to this discussion.

Wyatt, I can explain the shoe thing.

A chick can never outgrow shoes. Even on the fattest of fat days, my shoes still fit. And jewelry too.

So there you go.

Ward 7, Jackson's unofficial home of Jackson's unofficial creative class, gives Melton 70% of its vote. Melton wins without needing ONE vote from Ward 1 in NE Jackson.

If Ward 7 gave Melton 70% of its vote, what part of that makes up the overall percentage of the votes on Tuesday? Is there a breakdown out there by ward of who voted for whom? Forgive me - I was a math major, so I have a thing for numbers...

L.W., not exactly sure, but I have read that Ward 7 has the least amount of registered votors in the city, while Ward 1 has the most (at 22% of all registered votors). Ward 2 has the second most registered votors - again, from what I've gleaned from other sources. If someone has better info, by all means, please chime in.

The most compelling figures are the ones that show that less than 25 percent (right?) of Jacksonians turned out in the mayoral election. That indicates that a lot of people weren't impressed enough with either option to bother to vote on a beautiful day.

Still, I think our job as citizens is to discuss how to increase these numbers and how to find/encourage candidates for the future who really engage more Jacksonians and their everyday issues. I think it's that Johnson did not know how to engage citizens, even though he was buried deep into a variety of issues that effect everyone, and Melton was engaging, but only deal with vague and limited issues, which engaged a small percentage of Jacksonians. You could argue that only political junkies, and their friends and families, turned out for the most part. Or people with dogs in one or the other hunt.

I think the only real mandate that comes out of this is that we need candidates who can engage people and provide specifics about a wide variety of issues that effect everyday Jacksonians. We should start thinking toward the future.

Unofficial ward-by-ward results are posted by the C-L. I would be more interested in precinct-by-precinct to really be able to tell who voted for whom, being a political scientist by training.

Ladd, based on census figures and voter numbers, about 31% voted on Tuesday. See my earlier post wayyyy up there from the morning after.

Thanks, GDI. I alter my assessment to "less than a third" thenósame conclusion, though. Neither of these candidates spoke to the majority of Jacksonians. We need to pay attention to that fact. There's an important message in there.

And your comments above were good. We all need to monitor whomever gets elected so that in four years we can honestly answer the question, "Is Jackson better than it was four years ago?" But we don't need to wait until then; we must monitor week by week, month by month, especially with all the talk of crime-fighting being bandied about. We're going to have to be vigilant about constitutional rights no matter which man is elected in Juneóoverzealous crime-fighting ALWAYS leads to individual rights issues, and lawsuits. We must be vigilant and not let fear turn this city into a police state of sorts.

Oh, and I would expect this "police state" to strike hard against the casual drug users in Northeast Jackson as well, many of whom as we know are staunch "tough on crime" Republicans who believe that they are entitled to a little pot-smoking and speed-chasing even as they back candidates to fight the drug war on their behalf. I would expect the Mill Street Posse to ensure that the Neo-Capitol Street Gang isn't exempt, and vice versa. Twill be interesting.

Guess that means you'll have to keep the TruthWatch going for a while longer, huh?

Also, you might have heard Melton on Kim Wade's show talking about the people smoking pot in the parking lots of clubs. I would expect that to be a major target of his administration. I kinda doubt this "drug war" is going to just happen west of Gallatin. Just a hunch.

GDI, we were never in this just to cover the primary! Truthwatch will cover through the General Election and then onward to watchdog local government and the local media. That's always been the intention, no matter who was elected. This is one of the best uses of a blog, IMHOónot just to whine, but to bring smart people together to make a difference in the community. Fortunately, we attract mostly people who are interested in facts, not nastiness. Cheers to you all!

In other words, the swat teams (yes SWAT teams MAllen) may actually go into JA as well?

I sure would think so. If Melton is elected, I can't imagine that he's going to limit his efforts to the black community. Why would he? One thing he has going for him is that he doesn't need to be indebted to anyone. That will be a good thing if his motives prove to be good. We can pray.

Yes, they were SWAT teams from what I understand, regardless of what Mr. Melton wrote to the Clarion-Ledger. I think they called them something different, though.

"Called them"? What else would you call a fully armed team of fatigue-clad, combat boot wearing, helmeted individuals with air support making an unannounced sweep of a building?
The armed forces? Vigilantes?

Agreed, GDI. But there is probably a special name folks use for schoolsóa game of semantics to cover up the fact that SWAT teams are sent into schools with regards to the rights of young people.

That sounds like a media ploy to me, by the way.

Oh, it was a media ploy, to be sure. Just like the roadblocks around the campital while the legislature discussed the MBN budget. We are talking about the former CEO of a TV station afterall.

However, why THAT school? Why a school at all? If you're after the dealers, why scare the crap out of students?

This will probably get me taken off the board or at least chastised.
Is it just me or was Frank a little too much like Uncle Ruckus from the Boondocks during this campaign? And will that continue into the general?

Back to the stats...

I find it interesting (based on the C-L results), that Ward 1 had the biggest turnout. It doesn't surprise me that there are more registered and active voters in that area... It doesn't surprise me that most people I know in Ward 1 vote Republican (other than the few bohemians and queers)...

It surprises me that the areas most affected by a lot of violent crime had some of the lowest turnouts.... The areas that you'd think would be running (not walking) to the polls to cast a vote (either way) to make this city feel safer literally and figuratively did not show.

To me this is a huge concern and shows a power-play in the city. I don't, at all, blame this on Ward 1 (hell, I'm in Ward 1).... I don't know what/who to blame. But, there's a big problem when the areas that are notoriously on the news because of crime are not blasting Ward 1 out of the water with total votes.

If crime is the #1 issue, you'd think Ward 1 would have the least to worry about...

Voter turn out has always been linked to income, education, and race. Read any reputable study on the matter. This link is even stronger than the income-education-race link with party affiliation. I am not at all surprised that Ward 1 had the highest turnout. The only thing that would have made me believe they would not turn out is that, without a GOP primary, they didn't have a preference in the Democratic primary. But with a GOPer in democRat clothing...

It surprises me that the areas most affected by a lot of violent crime had some of the lowest turnouts.... The areas that you'd think would be running (not walking) to the polls to cast a vote (either way) to make this city feel safer literally and figuratively did not show.

GDI is right, but I don't think it's surprising based on the campaigns, either. I heard a very smart group talk about this on election nightópoor blacks didn't believe Johnson "felt their pain," so to speak (due to his reserve), and they weren't compelled enough by Melton to believe he's going to help them. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about: neither candidate engaged much of Jackson. This is a serious problem. The people who are most likely to be victims of crime didn't care enough for either candidate to turn out.

And no surprise on Ward 1óthat's a direct result of the crime fearmongering about the rest of Jackson. What else could it be? Melton didn't even talk to THEM about rebuilding crumbling homes in West Jackson. Hell, people who own a lot of those houses live in Northeast Jackson and beyond.

If crime is the #1 issue, you'd think Ward 1 would have the least to worry about...

Certainly based on where crime occurs in the city, and the reasons for it, that's true. But it's not as if many people tried to educate Northeast Jackson on that. The Clarion-Ledger, for instance, could have, but dropped the ball on this election. And they've even let the idea of eco-devo be submerged due to the crime hysteriaóeven though it is directly tied to lowering crime. I just think it was completely irresponsible. And to give credit to many Northeast Jackson votersópeople don't know what they don't know. There is where decent media coverage comes inóto help balance out the rhetoric of the ideologues. But, no.

GDI: Dug up an old article; apparently Melton did take his "SWAT" team to Prep. http://www.mapinc.org/newscfdp/v03/n221/a08.html Given what seems to be your distate for certain private schools in our city and anyone associated with them, it also seems fairly predictable that you'll say that Prep students were treated differently during their "raid" than the "raids" at other schools. Perhaps I have you wrong, though.

Why not get mad at the other public schools that weren't targets? According to this article, the only schools in Jackson he wen't to were Jim Hill, Lanier, and Provine High. Does Murrah enjoy your distate as well? Callaway? What about Wingfield?

"Just reiterating that Melton is the candidate of and has his heart with those who are really not with the city. I note you completely skipped over my question about swat teams charging into JA and Prep. Yeah, there are some REAL mischievous things going on in prep schools but a lot of people like Melton and his suburbwannabees will continue to ignore them."

You should alert Peter Jernberg at JA or Susan Lindsay at Prep of these mischievous things that are supposedly going on at their schools. Jackson doesn't have any authority to police Jackson Prep (that's Flowood's jurisdiction), but I'm sure the leadership there would appreciate help from concerned citizens.

To allege a double standard at the MBN during 2002-2003, there should actually be a double standard. If you want to make this point, give people more information than you've provided so far about these wrongdoings among the kids at JA or Prep that are occurring at school.

I doubt you have anything more than conjecture, but if you do, fill us in. Otherwise, in fairness to the teenagers of the city, stick to another topic.

But yeah, Donna is right. JPD and the Mill Street Posse have a wealth of opportunities to make drug arrests in any part of the city.

Sny, what's even more amazing is his suggestion, or maybe just flat out assertion, that people aligned with JA or Prep "are really not with the city." Wow, I never knew....all this time I decided to move to downtown Jackson and, low and behold, GDI awakens me that my heart is really with Madison. Thanks, GDI.

Thanks for the story, MAllen.

I just want to say, for the record, that I don't want to see SWAT teams in any of our schoolsófrom Lanier to Prep. Kids in public schools have more constitutional rights than those in academics; however, they shouldn't be subject to this kind of idiocy, either. Otherwise, I'll let GDI defend himself. ;-)

And I do believe that Melton would spread any drug-enforcement wealth around the city. I think, in this department, he and Kenny Stokes probably tend to agree. I don't know whether Melton agrees with the young curfew or not, but my guess is that he would. And, as you all know, there is a well-do-to family in North Jackson for a lot of money over that case.

Again, I'm against youth curfews for kids from Prep or from Provine. They don't do any good, just as SWAT teams in high schools serve no real purpose and can, in fact, be harmful. Same goes for drug testing.

Now where I can agree with GDI, at least in theory here, is that many of Mr. Melton's supporters probably do not believe THEIR kids will get caught up in any heavy-handedness. Time shall tell.

I have no problem with the schools not invaded by Commander Frank, public or private. I have no real beef with private schools per se. Any disagreement I have is with the reason they were oringinally established and the sense of privilege they feel they deserve. I also stand by my assertion that Prep and JA supporters are not ìwith the cityî in the sense that they feel they donít need to address education issues within the city. They have given up on public schools and will fight tooth and nail to make sure nothing is done that might raise public education standards and jeopardize their privileged private school standing.

Sny is right, however. I should offer concrete evidence not conjecture. I should not malign the teenagers of the city. I would ask the same of Commander Frank. He picked out all these public schools for his ìwalk throughsî giving the obvious implication that these schools had/have drug problems. Therefore, if your mighty Commander-in-Chaps thinks the targeted schools have drug problems, there must indeed by some mischievous things going on among the privileged kids.

As for Prep being Flowood's jurisdiction and out of the commander's jurisdiction (assuming he is elected), laws and regulations don't seem to have stopped him before. Maybe he should set up a roadblock on Lakeland just this side of the Pearl River from 7 to 8:30a.m.

Any disagreement I have is with the reason they were oringinally established and the sense of privilege they feel they deserve. I also stand by my assertion that Prep and JA supporters are not ìwith the cityî in the sense that they feel they donít need to address education issues within the city. They have given up on public schools and will fight tooth and nail to make sure nothing is done that might raise public education standards and jeopardize their privileged private school standing.

Hear, hear, GDI. My feelings exactly. And some of my favorite interns are from these schoolsóthis isn't about the young people who attend/ed them. They didn't make that decisions. It's about ... well ... what GDI just said.

As for Prep being Flowood's jurisdiction and out of the commander's jurisdiction (assuming he is elected), laws and regulations don't seem to have stopped him before. Maybe he should set up a roadblock on Lakeland just this side of the Pearl River from 7 to 8:30a.m.

And don't forget about all that multi-jurisdiction cooperation that they're going to have now. What in hell y'all think they're going to do with it if not "fight drugs"? They'll do some other stuff, too, but this clearly will be at the heart of the cooperative effort, one way or the other. After all, "crime" is Mr. Melton's No. 1 bete noir, remember?

Let me put it this way: If you do not support public education, I do not believe you really want to prevent crime.

It is perhaps a good time to remind that an entire industry has been built around crime that benefits some folks mightilyóMr. Melton himself has said that all private prisons should be closed.

Thoughts on that?

ooohhh...
Now we're getting into GOPer sacred cow type stuff!

I think you're viewpoint of the people of our city's academies is entirely off base. Things are more complicated at academies today than they were when they were first formed. It seems to me that you are letting your view of the history of academies entirely taint your view of the people at them presently, as well as taint your view of their motiviations. It would be a shame to fall into that trap.

Get to know some of the people there and I think you will agree. Academies have their histories; however, their present realities are far more complex than you paint them.

The situation is not so simple as to say that someone aligned with private schools is therefore "against" public schools.

Amen to "if you don't support public education... you really (don't) want to prevent crime." Even Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles can see that!

Things are more complicated at academies today than they were when they were first formed. It seems to me that you are letting your view of the history of academies entirely taint your view of the people at them presently, as well as taint your view of their motiviations. It would be a shame to fall into that trap.

I agree with MAllen on this, too, largely because I do know so many young people still in and who attended the so-called "seg" academies. However, this isn't a mutually exclusive point, MAllen. I know many very bright and progressive-minded young people from the academies who DO support public education and understand the links between education (and not just reading, although that, too) and socioeconmic issues and crime. This isn't either-or, so try not be too defensive about it. It's not a personal attack to say that many people who attended the city's (largely) white academies do not understand the importance of public education, nor respect the efforts of teachers and other people to give them support. See Barbour's attack on Adequate Education Funding.

Their history is indeed a problem I have. I know that a number of private schools are now integrated (if you call 1-2% minority enrollment "integrated"). But my problem with them TODAY is indeed that they do not support education improvement for all. If this is not the case, when was the last time anyone from any private high school in Jackson volunteered to do anything within the JPS system or helped support it in some way?

I have very close friends sending their kids to private schools. That does not mean I have to like what private schools are ultimately doing to public education. And being a supporter of public education does not mean I have to hate individuals who affiliate with private schools. I simply wish pri8vate school people were a little more in tune with what public education means for everyone and would lose their aired of superiority over it.

BTW, before y'all point it out, I know that Barbour attended public school in Yazoo Cityóback in the day before integration when white Republicans grooved on public schools.

My point was about Barbour's base supporters.

And for the record, in case it's not clear: Some of the most, progressive, compassionate people I know attended "white" academies in Mississippi. That's not the point being made here. We're talking basically about voting blocsóand the problem that Mr. Emmerich has a hard time seeing that people are blinded by their own surroundings and high gates. If they do not interact with the problems of others, they too often help force policy decisions that hurt other people, causing issues like crimeóand then blaming "them" for it.

This is why we must keeping talking about race, even as race-class issues continue to be more clouded and become more complicated. We really must hold several thoughts at once if we want to see societal improvement.

Barbour attended public schools is like saying Ronald Reagan was head of a union (SAG). Both statements discount historic contest and substance.

"Context" I mean.

f this is not the case, when was the last time anyone from any private high school in Jackson volunteered to do anything within the JPS system or helped support it in some way?

Actually, I've met a number of academy kids who have come to us who want to help in the public schoolls however they canólike sharing computers for school newspapers and such. The problem is often from aboveóthere is no apparatus for it, or perhaps their parents are opposed to it. But many get past it anyway.

It really is about interaction, and thus understanding, and that's what is sorely missed with our "resegregated" schools. I can respect certain things that kids learn well in private schools, while at the same time feeling sorry for them because they're so sheltered from "real" life for so many. Fortunately, many of them know that and go seeking what they missed as soon as they're old enough. They account for a lot of our interns.

Jessica Kinnison, and I don't think she'll mind my pointing it out, came to us during her junior year and comes back every summer from college. She has made friends with young people from throughout the city, and goes EVERYWHERE in town to do stories and get to know the city. She even sat on Kenny Stokes porch and interviewed him for a JFP Interview.

She's an amazing young woman who both got a good education at Prep, and was smart enough to know it wasn't enough. She could hold more than one thought at a time, and I love her for it.

Understood, GDI. But I do think it bears pointing out as often as possible that white conservatives in the state believed in public schools until they were integrated. Then, they became "government schools," as someone called them here recently.

History is, indeed, important to this discussionóespecially when certain attitudes haven't changed a whole helluva lot. Fortunately, as Mallen points out, that isn't true for everyone, though. Thank goodness.

I'm honestly a bit confused; you sound very mad at academies, at least given what seem to be the assumptions you are making about the wishes and desires of those involved with academies. These are very cynical assumptions. But this is a good topic and one that obviously causes of a lot of resentment in a lot of people in the city, so I'll return if I can. And, granted, I'm probably defensive on the topic.

I'm honestly a bit confused; you sound very mad at academies, at least given what seem to be the assumptions you are making about the wishes and desires of those involved with academies.

MAllen, with due respect, I think you're being a little defensive because you went to an academy. As for meóGDI is his own manóI'm not "mad" at academies. That's would be a useless exercise. The point is that they did grow out of an ugly historyójust trueóbut young people didn't decide to send themselves there. What's important now is for the bright young people coming out of them to understand that history, not try to sugarcoat it and then not to be saddled with the bad parts of it. Many people have done just thatówhile others have not. They need to be educated about the need for public schools, where there was a MAEP act in the first place, and how public education can help prevent crime if supported by all of society, whether or not you can afford to attend a private academy, or your reasons for doing it.

You're right that it's complex: I know wonderful academy grads who aren't prejudiced, and some of them tell stories about how prejudiced some of their classmates were. The very nature, of course, of going to a school with people who are so much like you is going to make it more difficult for you to understand people not like youómuch like my experience at Columbia where some elitist Yankees stereotyped southerners.

But that can be overcomeóbut it does take an understanding of the problem and efforts by academies grads themselves to widen their frame of reference, just as this Neshoba Central girl had to go learn some things I wasn't taught in that public school. There's no shame in realizing you don't know everything, for any of us. And there's no shame in figuring out their own circumstances prejudice usóand then figuring out how to get past it.

To bring it backóthis needs to happen more often in this state in order to help the public schools, and help to lower crime, rather than follow the people who don't mind if an underclass builds so that the private prisons fill up.

As to Donna's 2:51 post, My grandmother would say "Girl, tell the truth and shame the devil." We're moving too close to "survival of the fittiest" for my taste, a problem that I have always had with Capitalism, Oligarchy (government by a few), Plutocracy (government by the wealthy) and Elitism. Public education will get destroyed by all of this this crap unless all of us fight to save it. Public education won't get destroyed without dire consequences to everyone. Our current situation is already bearing a witness to this promise.

I attended a private academy. We had a few (by few I mean you could count them on your hand) Asian students. That's it. Very white. Most kids were racist and also had a lot of other issues with difference and diversity and enjoyed ridiculing those they could not or would not attempt to understand.

I don't hold it against my parents for sending me because I received an excellent education and learned a lot about how my "oponents" and those that loathe gays operate... I'm still baffled at how a Bible teacher can teach Evolution (but she tried... Failed... But tried) but that's another story...

I think the issue with private schools by many is that they do not foster diversity and they offer little-to-no variety in class (by that I mean social classes not educational). The kids are sheltered and understand little about diversity and the world around them since they experience a very macroscopic slice of reality.

I also know of many parents that sent their kids to private schools for the same reason many moved from Jackson in the 70s and 80s -- "the blacks".

I'm not bitter towards private schools but I'd never send my own child (if/when that happens).

Public education will get destroyed by all of this this crap unless all of us fight to save it. Public education won't get destroyed without dire consequences to everyone.

Amen, Brother Ray. ;-)

And I love yo grandmama's words. Now I know now you're who you are.

ladd: GDI is his own man.
That's the whole point of being a GD Independent.
Anyway, I'm not mad at private schools. I'm upset about the historic foundation of private schools in Mississippi. I'm upset about the lost of resources private schools represent. And I'm upset about the attitude many (I'll give you "not all," ok?) private school families have about public schools. I don't dislike people just because they go or send their kids to private schools.
I have to admit I get mad at some of the arrogance that I have seen surrounding many private school folks and the way they look down on public education just because it is public education. And I get mad stereotyping of public education students and teachers by those who refuse to support public education.

Actually, the success of private schools came about because Catholic public school students themselves faced discrimination in the late 19th century thanks to the King James Bible, Protestant prayers, and a viciously anti-Catholic/anti-immigrant environment in the public school system. The Catholic early parochial schools were such a nice concept that other private schools--first religious, then also secular--were patterned after them. No doubt some people did send their kids to private schools for racist reasons later, but the private school system as a whole has its roots elsewhere.

Personally, as someone who was homeschooled K-12 but socialized in an ethnically mixed environment, I tend to be suspicious of explanations of alternative schooling based on the idea of racist parents. I have no doubt that these cases exist, and I have no doubt (per Knol's description) that there are private schools where a pervasively racist atmosphere prevails unchallenged, but I think most parents who send their kids to private schools do so for acceptable, even commendable reasons, and they shouldn't be put in the same category as the troglodytes.


Cheers,

TH

I think most parents who send their kids to private schools do so for acceptable, even commendable reasons, and they shouldn't be put in the same category as the troglodytes.

Interesting points, Tom, But how does pointing out that both are in private academies do that, Tom? Just because they go to the same schools?

And we all know that there are different kinds of private schools that came about for different reasons. The question is whether the people in the ones for bad reasons have changed their views about segregation, or whether they're passing them onto their kids? Those would be "troglodytes." ;-)

Must. Not. Blog. More. Now. (Bottoms up.)

In Mississippi, Tom private academies (a whole different category from parochial and religious schools) started with the enforcement of integration. Progressed because of integration. Many continue today in large measure because of mixed stereotypes regarding race, and now class and other diversity issues. Yes, some well meaning people send their kids to private academies for noble reasons today. But by sending them they are removing themselves from the discussion and systemic efforts to improve public education.

And that's where Ray's Social Darwinism comes in, without enough attention paid even by these parents to the needs of the public schools. Some people are so dense that they somehow believe that if they don't have kids in public schools that public schools are not important to them. Inevitably, the same ones will declare that crime is the most important issue facing us. Where's the disconnect?

BTW, the phrase "seg academies" (as in "segregation academies") is what the people who formed them called them. Not so many years ago, academy folks were proud to be called "segregationists." Now, it's good to see that there's shame attached to the phraseóhowever, it's policy that matters, not someone's personal defensiveness. Thus, the point that this isn't a personal discussionógo elsewhere for thatóthis is about societal problems and policy, and who's supporting what, and why.

Like Knol, I also attended a private academy. I got a good education, but wished there were other opportunities. There was no band & not many elective classes that I thought were interesting.

Yes, there's very little diversity, and there were sheltered students, but it was also my impression that students understood the world around them. (examples given: going to school in an area largely dependent on the oil and gas industry in the 1970s and 1980s provides plenty of lessons on the global economy; working in a family business with a customer base that's about 65-70 percent African-American.)

As far as my personal school choice is concerned, if/when I have children, I'd likely be in favor of sending them to public schools. I currently live in Clinton & am impressed with its school system.

Thanks, GDI, for pointing out the difference between academies and parochial schools. I went to one of the latter, St. Andrew's, and not only was it by far the best educational experience of my life (including college or grad school), but it also was a place where I learned real lessons about tolerance, diversity, and progressive thinking.

Only two things (and not trying to be defensive:): GDI, you mentioned you are indeed upset by the history of academies. That would make you no different than anyone who attends or has attended Jackson's private schools in the fairly recent past (I'm sure there are exceptions, but I think that is a very safe statement for the overwhelming, overwhelming majority). People aren't proud of that past. But we are way past legal segregation at this point. Most people aren't going to let what they thought of the onset of academies some thirty-five years ago affect what they do with their kids today. They're just not. They are more worried about the practicalities of here and now - and how their own children will be affected, not the entire city. They tend to get theoretical before and after their own kids have to go to school.

Two, Donna, not sure what to make of "it's policy that matters, not someone's personal defensiveness." Granted, this is a snippet of a larger conversation. It just caught my attention. What I'm about to say could differ depending upon which academy you are talking about (I'll explain). As far the academies of this city go, there is no "policy" against people of different color/ethnicity/etc, as I gather some suspect. And the fact that few, say, blacks choose to attend JA does not mean that there is such a policy. Trust me, everyone I've talked to on the subject would love to have a more diverse alma mater - but we can't force other parents or kids to diversify our alma mater for us, and a school shouldn't be blamed because a couple of parents don't won't to be the "first black parents" sending their kids to a particular school (although, realistically, we are way past that now).

As far as the difference between academies, it has always been suspected that rural academies might harbor more of the sentiments that you are worred about than urban academies. But, hey, if I assume that then I'd be making some cynical assumptions about rural folk. Whatever - just throwing that out there.

Anyway, I'm sure this is enough already, and most are probably bored with the topic at this point. Happy Cinco de Mayo.

Scott Albert, I doubt there's anyone who would try to accuse youóor Mallen, I suspect, although I don't know him as wellóof not trying to fill in any gaps in your good education. I mean, you organize events on behalf of Operation Shoestring. You play the blues. You LIVE in the city. And on and on. Clearly, your education has not limited you in any way that I can see. Thus, you're not the target of any of this, clearly. But I'm glad you posted on it. We needs lots of perspectives on this.

Mallen, I'm not talking about policies about getting into private academies! Obviously that's different than it used to be, on whatever levels. I'm talking about SOCIETAL policy that affects everyoneówhat elected officials do, and what/who we vote for. Policies about public education, whether to fund Adequate Education (that wouldn't today be a problem had there not been for state-enforced segregation up to 35 years ago).

Very different things. It's not my concern that your family chose to send you to a private school; however, policy toward public education is EVERYONE's concern, even if you went to private school. That's my concern.

I wouldn't push too hard on the rural-vs.-urban thing. Speaking for myself, I know some amazing, open-minded kids in rural academies, and I know some young bigots in urban academies, and vice versa. Same goes for public schools. Again, this isn't about individual personalities, as far as I'm concerned; it's about the concern of whether (enough) people who go to academies still support public schools so that our society doesn't devolve into have-vs.-have-not, and all that entails (like crime). A voting bloc thing, you could say. Of course, we're headed there, what with re-segregation and Bush policies. But I'll leave that for another day.

And I doubt most are "bored" with this topic; they don't seem to be. And anything but city elections! (Talk about election fatigue!) I think it's a vital topic to keep hashing out, and encourage everyone to keep at this one. We need to talk TO each other about these things, so that we don't make assumptionsówhether that all kids who go to white academies are bigots (false), or that people like GDI and me concerned about public-school policy think that (also false). It doesn't have to be either-or; nothing seldom is.

Talk among yourselves.

I appreciate the props, Donna... Thanks. HOWEVER, I also want to say that not only did my education not limit me, it actually prepared me to have a much more open mind than I would have had if I had gone to EITHER a public school or a (then) segregated academy. The educational level at my school was vastly superior to any other option available in the Jackson area at the time (I think others, notably Jackson Academy and Prep, may have caught up since then)...

But more importantly, St. Andrew's was integrated from the beginning, and not just in a racial sense... we had kids of all races from all socioeconomic backgrounds (I myself was on financial assistance, as were many of my friends). We were ACTIVELY encouraged to participate in the community around us; in fact, seniors were required to give something like 80 hours of community service and to write a report about it. Discrimination or stereotyping was not tolerated in any way. This was the 1980s, too... Attitudes in Jackson were not as progressive as they are now.

So, I am saying that GDI was right to make the distinction between academies and parochial schools, because -- at least in my own experience -- I was very, very lucky in *every* sense to go to the school that I did, at the time and place that I did. And I think it is important to point out that many parents who send their kids to private schools are not doing so out of racism or classism... it's because they want their kids to get the best education available.

GDIModerate:
Yes, some well meaning people send their kids to private academies for noble reasons today. But by sending them they are removing themselves from the discussion and systemic efforts to improve public education.

I agree with you to an extent. I know people who've removed themselves, but there are others who continued to (and still do) help public schools. While my sister and I both graduated from private academies, my parents also supported public education. To give a few examples from when I was an academy student: they openly supported an important school bond issue, which I suppose was kind of unusual for people who sent their kids to private schools; the family business also supported extracurricular activities by regularly purchasing ads, etc., for programs; my father & I also went to public school athletics events (mostly football) when I was younger.

Scott, I'm not disagreeing, and I'm not dissin' St. Andrews. The only thing I will say is that any schooling is "limiting," at least in the way I meant. The key is whether or not you seize the opportunity and motivation to then go out there and expand your personal horizons, which you clearly did. Someone with a less open mind at any school, including yours, might not do that in the same way yours did. That's a bit of a semantics argument. We're not disagreeing. And I can appreciate that you love your school. ;-)

BTW, I know graduates of JPS who say the same types of things about their programs, and have gone to amazing schools and are progressive and open-minded; fortunately, such preparation does not have to come from an expensive private school. Which I think brings us full circle.

If you provide your child the best education possible and care nothing about whether others get the same or similar education, (not to mention voting or acting in ways that precludes others from getting what you admittedly know is important for your children), aren't you knowingly or unknowingly participating in classism, survial of the fittiest, seperation, selfishness, or other negative policies or concepts?

t's because they want their kids to get the best education available.

Yes, but it would be intellectually dishonest of us not to at least acknowledge that, for many parents, that means "go to school with people their own race" (and/or class). I know kids getting a rotten education in some of the lesser "white" academies, but whose parents believed it would be "better" because the black kids wouldn't drag it down.

Again, though, my point here is not about these individual, personal decisions; it's about the attitudes that people who make those decisions have about public-school policy, and whether or not they understand that they need public schools, too, even if they don't send their kids there. And as GDI points out, it's about whether myths and perceptions about public schools then drive families out of them who can't even afford private education because of fear of their kids inter-racial dating or such. The types of programs that produce Brown University attendees (to use a stereotype) could be more wide-scale had whites not fled the public schools in droves in 1970-71 and took their resources with them. This is simply fact.

But I think the perception (whether it's a reality, I really can't say) is that such preparation, in Jackson at this time, DOES have to come from an expensive private school. I hear this from some of the most progressive, knowledgeable (about Jackson as well as life in general) people I know. I hear that it is especially true at the elementary school level.

That's a patently false perception! I know some AMAZING graduates of JPS to prove it. I've never met a prep school kid who impressed me more than many of the JPS graduates I meet (present company excluded, of course). ;-)

And Ray makes a good point, even if it's a difficult one to consider.

To add to my other point: the young people who, as a group, have impressed me more than any others I've met in Jackson are the young people whose parents *deliberately* sent them to public school with a determination that they would then attend fine schools (such as yours, Scott) and not lose anything as a result. I'm talking about kids of different races who are some of the most intelligent, compassionate and comfortable young people in absolutely ANY setting that I've ever seen. (Again, not a comparison to anyone!) Yes, it has a lot to do with parenting, but it can be done just as well in the public schools.

"That's a patently false perception! I know some AMAZING graduates of JPS to prove it."

But that doesn't necessarily prove that these kids went to outstanding programs... it could be that they were amazing KIDS who rose above limitations in those programs. I'm not insisting that this is the case... but the caliber of people who have said to me that they simply don't trust the public schools in Jackson to meet the needs of their kids... these are good people who have told me this, and some of them actually tried the public schools first. I also know a young idealistic woman who went to teach in the JPS and left after one semester because of threats to her life. And this was at an ELEMENTARY school.

I also am forced to disagree with this comment:

"If you provide your child the best education possible and care nothing about whether others get the same or similar education, (not to mention voting or acting in ways that precludes others from getting what you admittedly know is important for your children), aren't you knowingly or unknowingly participating in classism, survial of the fittiest, seperation, selfishness, or other negative policies or concepts?"

Sorry, but I fail to understand how some nebulous idea of one's obligation to community trumps the obligation to one's family. That's communism, more or less. If -- and I place emphasis on IF -- public schools in an area are rotten, then it is irresponsible to send one's kids to those schools anyway, if other options are available and feasible. I'd also argue that blind support of public schooling, no matter what their failures, helps no one.

Don't misunderstand me... I am not in favor of vouchers, or any other scheme that means even more neglect of public schools. I want to see better public schools, and I think that means higher teacher salaries as well as tougher standards (and funding to help meet those standards).

But, honestly, I am having a kid in the fall, so I am thinking about this from the standpoint of a parent. If I can afford it in 2010 and am still in Jackson, I'll probably be sending my kid to St. Andrew's (not merely because of problems in public schools, but my own personal experience with St. A's. That's just parenting. If I had strong evidence that my kid could get just as good an education at a public school, then I would reconsider that.

To add: Believe me, I want to see public schools in Jackson be successful and turn out quality young people, and I don't think it's impossible. But blindly optimistic assessments of the state of public schooling helps nobody. Even on a national level, our kids is not learning, to paraphrasing the C student-in-chief. Here in Jackson, things may be improving, but still.

Ray, if I live in an area that only has fast food and supermarkets with crappy produce, am I abandoning my community because I drive to the suburbs to find nutritious food to feed my kids? I admit that is a hypothetical and a bit silly, but my point is that it is wrong to fault parents for wanting to give their kids the best options possible.

But that doesn't necessarily prove that these kids went to outstanding programs...

No, no, no, Scott. I'm not expressing myself hereóthey were in AMAZING programs in JPS. I know them well. You seem to be assuming public schools are filled with "limitations"; I respectfully disagree and argue that you may not know enough about JPS.

Re Ray's point: I think that captures the paradox at the heart of this question that parents face. I think you can both be right on this in many ways; thus, the need for societal consideration and discussion. But at least you're not arguing for vouchers and such (which I wouldn't think you would), but many people in private schools do.

As for your kid, I know some folks you can talk to while you consider this question. You have a bit of time. ;-)

I'm not saying there are NO good programs in JPS. I know a little about it, and I know kids like Russell Welch and the OTHER Scott Johnson (sax player) who are proof that there are good things going on, at least on the high school level. But that's not the same as sending your kid to an elementary school where the teachers are barely qualified and where fifth-graders are toting guns.

Some things might vary in different parts of Jackson, as well. One public school might be solid, but that doesn't help the kid much who lives in another, less well-served part of town.

And Donna, I assure you that if I told you the name of at least one of the people I know who won't send his kids to public school in Jackson, you would hear where I am coming from. He is one of the most progressive people in this city, a hard worker on behalf of people who don't have enough, and an avid supporter of quality education for all. It is indeed possible, even likely, that I don't know enough about JPS, but I am going on the statements of people that I trust and respect. Of course I include the people here in that, but I have to weigh all the evidence.

But blindly optimistic assessments of the state of public schooling helps nobody.

That's not what this is. I'm not "blindly optimistic" about anything. I am idealistic, and I do homework before making statements.

In this case, I know of what I speak. I could also accuse of making blindly pessimistic statements about the public schools, but I like you too much. ;-)

BTW, I don't think Ray is doing that; I could be wrong, but I think he's challenging readers to consider more than one thought at once: that you may be doing what you believe is best for your child and hurting our people's kids at the same time. It's a paradox of truth, so to speakóand one that needs to be acknowledged and dealt with somehow. Does it mean that you don't get to send your kid to St. Andrews? Of course not. But it also might mean that you do more than you're doing (not meaning just you, Scott) to ensure that public education in Mississippi is at least adequately funding.

The JFP has broken many stories now about public education is this areaóand explained things about No Child Left Behind that had never been explained locally. Those are usually the stories the least read on our Web site. People are so terrified about crime, but how hard was it to get people to call the Legislature about MAEP? (Hard.)

My point: No matter what school you choose for your child, you should actively support public education in Mississippi.

I know those people, too, Scott: You don't have to tell me their names. Hell, Fred Banks sent his kids to private school, and he was one of the architects of desegregation in Jackson.

But watch the perceptions; why did you say this? Do you really think fifth-graders are running amok in JPS carrying guns? Does this statement help anything?

But that's not the same as sending your kid to an elementary school where the teachers are barely qualified and where fifth-graders are toting guns.

I'm not going to post names here without permission, but I'll give you a list of names of folks to talk to the next time I see you. And I promise you that it will get your attention. And you need to meet the kids if you haven't. And I'm not just talking about our mutual friend Ron Welch.

- I'd forgotten about the seg academies, and

- I agree that everybody should support public education in Mississippi, whether they send their kids to public schools or not.

It really grates that folks who want to cut funding for public education say they're also going to reduce crime. Uh, how?


Cheers,

TH

One more thing: this person that I speak of explored carefully the public school options.

Okay, one MORE thing: I lived in St. Louis until I was nine, where I went to an outstanding public school. Near the end of third grade, we moved to Tupelo, where I attended a public school with a teacher who literally could not speak English properly. I was in third grade and had to bite my tongue to keep myself from correcting her grammar. That's not because I was so smart, but because she was so incredibly unqualified (and she had been teaching there for a long time).

A year later, we moved to Jackson, and I am sure this experience had something to do with my parents' decision, at GREAT financial hardship, to send em to St. Andrew's. A couple of years later, my dad turned down a transfer to Oklahoma (again at great financial sacrifice) so I could stay at this school.

So, even if public schools are not as bad as everyone says -- and I do suspect that's probably the case -- I still find it wrong to imply that parents are somehow doing something wrong by getting their children the best education they possibly can. I do agree, however, with what I think is your main point: people should support public education to the best of their ability, and actively. I just don't agree that this includes sacrificing opportunities for one's own kids.

I just don't agree that this includes sacrificing opportunities for one's own kids.

No one says it does. Remember what I said before, about the paradox and such. But it also doesn't help to live in denial that those personal decisions have a wider societal impact.

My biggest point here, though, is that before you make such a decision about what you're "sacrificing" that you (a) not make/believe sweeping 5th-grader/guns stereotypes and (b) do your homework about programs that are available int he public schools. I'd also suggest (c) meeting these kids and parents I'm talking about.

"But watch the perceptions; why did you say this? Do you really think fifth-graders are running amok in JPS carrying guns? Does this statement help anything?"

Read my earlier post again. A friend of mine, who took about a 50% cut in pay to teach at an elementary school in south Jackson (for the most idealistic of reasons), left after a semester because of threats to her life WITH WEAPONS, at school. So I am speaking from personal knowledge.

Does this mean it's happening everywhere? Of course not. But my statement is based on her experience, and what I think is a fair assumption: that parents who send their kids to that particular school are sending their kids into a less-than-adequate situation.

And you don't have to show me the list of kids you are talking about, because (a) I trust you and (b) it doesn't change my point. I already know that there are good programs in Jackson, but I don't think you can say that they exist equally at all schools, nor do they demonstrate that JPS is a better option than a private school.

My parents sent me to St. Andrew's, by the way, not only because of the caliber of education but BECAUSE OF THE DIVERSITY across economic and racial lines. It's a fallacy that kids can only be exposed to such at public schools.

Also: even if one sends their kids to a private school, they are still presumably paying taxes that go to support public schools in their area. This is why I do not support vouchers. So, if one still actively supports (through voting, taxes, and even more active support like lobbying, fundraising etc.) public schools, then I don't see how sending one's kids to private schools negates that.

Okay, I'm outta here. It's too beautiful an afternoon to blog, so I'm going to pull a Gerald Ford in Vietnam stunt: "declare victory and leave." :)

Of course it doesn't change your point. I wasn't arguing that you were wrong on your overall point about your right to choose a good education for your child. I'm just saying that there are two things that happen at once there, and they're both true.

Now, I do argue with your using that South Jackson school to generalize about JPS. That's faulty logic. For one, I kind of doubt your child would attend school in South Jackson. So I'm not sure how that example applies to anything. And I would ask back how many of them carried guns? And what is being done about thast both in the school and in the community? Who gave them the guns? Did they go to jail? And so on.

What I would encourage you to do is ask someone at Parents for Public Schools to give you and SM a tour of Casey and Davis elementaries. You're not going to find a whole of kids there with guns, I can tell you. Or over at Smith, although that one would be a bit out of your territory.

There is some impressive stuff waiting, I promise.

Otherwise, as I said, we're not disagreeing. I don't disagree with your point. I just want to widen the discussion a bit. And I know you trust me. Thank you. ;-)

One more thing, by way of an olive branch: I am NOT suggesting at ALL that parents who send their kids to public schools (no matter what the quality of their programs) are necessarily making the wrong decision. There are many factors involved, and I think there are valid arguments on both sides. What I am saying is that I am sensing an automatic presumption the other way, and I think that is blind to some of the valid concerns that parents have about the opportunities available to their kids.

So, if one still actively supports (through voting, taxes, and even more active support like lobbying, fundraising etc.) public schools, then I don't see how sending one's kids to private schools negates that.

Didn't say it didóin fact, said it didn't, per se. However, I encourage parents to lean more toward the active support because it's so desperately needed these days with so many Republicans trying to dismantle public schools and pull the support out from underneath them so that they will fail.

Case in point: Morrison Academic Achievement Center, a middle school set up to help kids who don't pass the NCLB tests, was assigned a "failing" label because ... the kids there didn't do well on the tests. This is not a system designed to succeed.

Anyway, the victory is all yours. I'll get you that list, though. ;-P

I think we have to drink now because you returned after saying goodbye, Scott. ;-)

No, don't sense that "automatic presumption"óthat would be based on your own perspective, because I have not said that. In fact, I've said quite the opposite. Or, I've said that both things can be true at once, which is not how your characterizing my comments. The either-or pull is strong óresist!

(I am your father, Luke ...)

Bye.

By the way -- drink! -- no need for an olive branch, Scott. We're just discussing ideas. We're not supposed to agree. And you haven't made anything personal; nor have I. ;-)

I'm probably going to end up either homeschooling my kids, but if I were to send them to a private school it would probably be St. Andrew's--one of the most diverse and progressive schools you'll find anywhere. St. Joseph's is equally strong and will remain so, if there's still room for independent thought in the Catholic tradition by then. But the Mississippi School for Math and Science, which I believe is publicly funded, trumps them all.

At this point I can't imagine any scenario where I would send my kids to JPS. I've heard too many horror stories from both students and teachers about kids who slipped through--or, rather, were pushed through--the cracks. I support JPS not because I think it's great, but because I want it to become great. I'd love it if JPS reached the point where, like MSMS, it soared above the private school competition. But I don't believe it's anywhere near there yet, though a few individual public schools are getting close.


Cheers,

TH

But I don't believe it's anywhere near there yet, though a few individual public schools are getting close.

What is the obsession with the district over allówhich is going to have problems due to the socioeconomics of Jackson? My point beingówhy reject a particular JPS that could offer your children amazing things because the district, over all, has some problems? That sounds a little like buying into perceptions to me, and is similar to Scott Albert reject all of JPS because of storiesówhich are probably overblownóabout all those fifth-graders in South Jackson packin' heat.

I'm not following this logic.

Donna, "I can't imagine any scenario" goes further than I meant to go; I can imagine scenarios where I would send my kids to specific JPS schools. I think I gave some indication of this myself when I mentioned MSMS.

But if I were to take bets right now, I'd say that I'll probably homeschool my kids. No school--public or private--offers the same level of flexibility that homeschooling does. Whether my kids want to learn Spanish or Singhalese, football or Brazilian jiujutsu, biology or quantum physics, I can accommodate. I can put them in diverse company where they actually fit in, like the 60/40 black/white racial split of my childhood swimming classes at the state street YWCA, rather than in diverse company that cliques up on racial lines.

If I were to send my kids to any school, public or private, it wouldn't be because it's a public or private school--it would be because it's a place where they would feel comortable, and a place that offers a specific range of programs that are likely to fit their interests and/or needs. I'd be sacrificing some flexibility in exchange for putting my kids' education in the hands of professionals who are, in some ways, more qualified than I am.

But wherever I send my kids, I'm going to be watching the administrators like a hawk--and at the first sign they're unhappy or being left off the trolley, I'll raise hell and pull them out if the problem is not immediately resolved. Both private and public school administrators will find me to be a nosy and persistent pain in the a** who doesn't give them a moment's rest. I think that's a lot of what being an involved parent is about.

That's way off the tangent of what we're actually discussing, but I guess my main point is that I'd rather see a parent say "I'm sending my child to Key because I've investigated the school and really like it" than "I'm sending my child to Jackson Academy because I hear it's good." We wouldn't buy a car because we "hear it's good"; wouldn't make sense to send a kid there either. For my part it's less about JPS v. private schools than it is about making sure that whatever happens, the parent(s) and the kid(s) aren't pressured or cooed into making an automatic decision. That's one of the reasons why vouchers don't bother me more than they do, though the church-state implications are a little troubling--as are the potential effects on the public school system.


Cheers,

TH

Jeez, my grammar got run over my reindeer in that post, didn't it?

Gist of it: I have a serious problem with the "support your local public school system by sending your children there" argument. My peer group by and large has a negative history with specific JPS schools, and that colors the way I talk about them, but I realize some JPS schools and teachers are actually quite good. Where I send my kids will have more to do with who my kids are and what the individual schools are like than any other factor. Bearing in mind that I'm 26 and single, so we're talking about my hypothetical kids... :P


Cheers,

TH

I have a son in the first grade at St. Andrews and my 5-year old daughter attends a wonderful Montessori program at McWillie, the new public school serving the Fondren area. She's farther along than my son was at the same age after attending a year at St. Andrew's. Currently the McWillie Montessori program only goes through the third grade, but JPS administrators have promised to add an additional three-year block in the next year or two. (Montessori classes at the elementary level combine three-year age groups, e.g., ages 4-6 and 6-8). Also, the level of participation in PTA absolutely blows me away. I drop in on her class every Wednesday after N-JAM sushi, even read a book to the class every now and then. I find McWillie much more open to parental involvement and participation than St. Andrews, BTW.

As a parent, though, it breaks my heart that she doesn't have as many friends in the neighborhood to play with -- because with one notable exception her contemporaries are all attending private schools and hanging out together. We attended the May Day celebration at St. Andrew's last week, and she clearly wished she could be in the show. It would be much easier to stick it out if more parents in the 'hood would joint us, but I'm not going to keep her there just to prove a point.

Whoops, I meant "join us," but jointing might be fine too.

I remember when I started kindergarten in 1980. I went to John Hopkins, which was pretty new at the time. There were about four or five Caucasian kids in my class, and I became good friends with most of them. However, as I advanced through each grade, they began to disappear. I was sad when I did not see them after summer vacation, and I did not know where they went or why. By the time I was in junior high, the only white children I saw were in special education classes.

Thanks to my parents, I grew up loving diversity, so I secretly wished that there were more ethnicities in my school like I saw on television. I remember one day when I was staying after school for a club meeting (I was at Callaway), and I looked at the yearly photographs of Mr. and Miss Callaway on the wall along with the runners-up. I saw the gradual change from mostly white to all black, and I wondered why. That following year, my American history teach introduced a new word to us - exurbia, which is a residential area outside of a city and beyond suburbia. He also told us about the population decrease in Jackson due to people moving away from the city by giving statistical data. At the time, I couldn't understand why anyone would want to leave.
However, when I found out the racial makeup of who was leaving, I was disappointed.

I thought to myself, What was the point of integration if people can just segregate themselves again? I was angry for a while, but then I later learned that not all white people moved to get away from blacks. Some moved for the same reason some African Americans did - they wanted to live in what they felt were nicer neighborhoods with nicer school systems for their children.

I lived in Jackson my whole life - Jackson is all I know, and I love it here. I just hope that one day more people will want to live here and improve the city's reputation.

BTW, I read a comment above about fifth graders in South Jackson packing heat. My nephew completed the fifth grade at Marshall Elementary last year, and he has never "packed heat". He took TaeKwonDo for a while, so maybe the "heat" is in those kicks!

Speaking as a "seg" academy graduate (although we didn't call them that on the Louisiana side of the river-- we just called them "private schools")...

I think all the bases have been covered. MAllen's probably right when he said that the race sentiment probably is worse in the rural areas and small towns (especially in The Delta, where I grew up -- yes, The Delta region does cross state lines!!!). But that's probably more of a function of urban vs rural counties with regards to progressive tendencies. Although my teachers were competent and dedicated, many students complained that my school(s) didn't really prepare you for anything (although I think it was more a case of uninspiring teachers than actual curriculum -- yes, just because you are a competent and dedicated teacher does not mean you are inspiring -- inspiring means to be able to make the course interesting, not necessarily in a flashy, entertainign sense). But this is going off onto the tangent of the proper teaching techniques, which would be kind of off topic. So I'll stop here.

Scott:

where the teachers are barely qualified and where fifth-graders are toting guns.... (combined with) threats to her life WITH WEAPONS, at school.

Most but not all of this has been addressed already. Let me say just a couple of things:

What time frame are your sources referring to? Within the last couple years? five years ago? 10? JPS has a whole new emphasis, attitude and policies going on under the new superintendent. I ask you to look for yourself at the current situation before listening to someone who has not been involved in the last two years.

What is your definition of "qualified teacher"? As of the 2003-04 school year, 99% of the 4,586 No Child Left Behind core academic classes were taught by a highly qualified teacher (NCLB's definition, not JPS's). JPS has more teachers and counselors holding National Board Certification (111) than some entire states.

When did the weapons incidents happen? Again, if it was more than 2 or 3 years ago, don't judge today's schools. Every school has increased security, including entry scans. Further, your first statement was that fifth graders were toting guns, then you said she was threatened with weapons. Were the weapons also the guns you mentioned? It would be extremely difficult to "tote" a gun into any JPS school today. Pocketknives and other "weapons" that used to be as common in a boyís jeans as change (and still is for many adult males), are grounds for suspension. JPS has a very strong "zero tolerance" policy in place for weapons and alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs.

I would also like to add that the guns-in-school fear is just a little overblown due to some very unfortunate and isolated events (many of which happened in schools with enrollment more akin to the average Mississippi private school than JPS). According to the US Department of Education the number of students expelled for bringing a gun to school (per 100,000 students enrolled in public schools) for the 2001-2002 year was extremely low. Most states had 8 or fewer, 11 states had between 9 and 17 (Mississippi among them), 2 states had between 18 and 26 expelled (AL and MT), and one state-- Alaska-- had more than 27 students expelled for carrying guns into school.

Sorry I missed so much of the argument yesterday. Scott, my views arn't communistic but I do think like the great Paul Robeson (one of the most talented and brillant men to walk the earth) that some so-called communistic views could enhance the concept of capitalism. Aren't I preaching love, equality, due process and charity more so than communism. Donna explained my position well. Public schools need adequate funding and teachers too so that we will continue to have great success stories coming from that venue since most of ur kids will attend that source for education. You can't say to hell with public schools then feign ignorance of why there is such decline and inadequacy there. Moreover, you can't ignore others who are struggling for survival too and live safe and free from the harm that neglect causes. I'm so amazed that intelligent people missed this point. You can't build enough jails and gated neighborhoods to flee the "chicken coming home to roof."

Amen, Ray.

And to be honest, I don't think I'd mind a little "socialism with a human face" (to use DubcÈk's term, later adopted by Gorbachev). Capitalism is too strong if we take it straight; it should be cut with a little bit of something else. Whether politicians admit it or not, public schools and institutions of higher education, public hospitals, public transportation, subsidies, antitrust regulation, federal protection of unions and whistleblowers, welfare, medicaid, and social security are all socialist programs. That's why when Republicans--who tend to be pure capitalists--get into office, the first thing they try to do is either get rid of these programs outright or reform them away. The New Deal is an attempt to bring the best of socialism into the capitalist system to make it more humane. For the most part it has worked out beautifully, but some folks aren't happy about that.


Cheers,

TH

Thanks Tom for your knowledge, insight, foresight, wisdom ans honesty. I also hope that I made a few people look to see who Paul Robeson was, and at what can happen to you when you're brutually honest and courageous as he was. Thank God some of us are willing to suffer and die for truth and love. History will eventually credit Robeson for his gifts and insight.

Thanks for the kind words, Ray. I found this inspiring:
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6440/


Cheers,

TH

Ray: I agree completely with what you say in your last posts, but not with the concept that community loyalty somehow trumps family loyalty, which is what you were implying before (in your suggestion that sending one's kids to private school equates to supporting classism and selfishness). That's not promoting love, equality, and charity... that's lecturing those who care enough about their kids to provide them with the best education they can.

"What time frame are your sources referring to? Within the last couple years? five years ago? 10? JPS has a whole new emphasis, attitude and policies going on..."

This was about two years ago. Anyway, I'm sorry I made so much of that incident or the concept of guns in schools... I accept that this might be overblown and, at any rate, probably doesn't apply to the schools in my area. Even if these schools are perfectly safe and their programs are on the upswing, it's still unlikely that they are going to match those at a school like St. Andrew's. I seriously doubt the reading list at Callaway or Murrah matches the one we had, for ALL students (not just the "gifted" ones). It challenged me in a way that my "excellent" college did not.

But listen, I thought I made it clear (and I think Donna got it) that I support public schools! Hey, if I am shown that there is a truly high-quality public school that will serve my child (and Wilson mentioned the Montessori program at McWillie, which we will definitely look at if we are still in Jackson), then I will send him there. Hey, I am a musician, so I am not quite banking on having St. A's tuition in the bank.

I have gotten in so many arguments where I decry the priority placed on educationin this country, and how I think qualified teachers should be among the highest-paid public employees. I would never support a candidate who supports vouchers, or any other policy that further undermines our schools. What I don't agree with is the "send your kids to public school no matter what the cost or situation". Frankly, I think public schools need the pressure that comes from the threat of students departing if they aren't up to snuff.