CBS: Uncommitted Voters Say Biden Won 46%-21%

That was fun. Biden did great, Palin was obnoxious as hell but didn't fall completely on her face—and Gwen Ifill was a pitiful moderator. She broke every rule in the interviewing book: leading, yes-or-no questions

Palin was a straight ideologue and kept repeating the same thing and not answering questions. Biden did exactly what he should have done: calmly refuted her and methodically knocked certain points out of the park.

And the fact that he beat her on the "family" point was an amazing thing to watch.

Very nice.

Agreed, Ladd. Biden was low-keyed but masterful. His emotional moment recalling him at his son's bedside was priceless. What struck me was that at that moment, Palin ignored the moment and proceeded to recite her well-practiced cues without ever acknowledging 'feeling' Biden. That was a colossal mistake, IMHO.

Palin didn't come off as the ignoramus as she seemed to be in the Katie Couric interviews and seemed to hold her own quite nicely. Nevertheless, she danced around the questions by not answering them directly, instead, offering, more or less, talking points. Biden, on the other hand, was much more concise and didn't stray off path like Palin did. Biden made me more enthusiastic about him. His knowledge, especially on foreign affairs, really came through for him tonight.

How in the world could she unilaterally decide which questions she would answer? Oh I forgot: she could only answer those questions that she THOUGHT she could handle, and she failed at that even.

My observations precisely, golden eagle. Wonder what would have happened if Gwen Ifill had simply said, "Governor Palin, with all due respect, I'm the moderator and my charge is to ask the questions of you and Sen. Biden. Please answer MY questions without substituting your own."

To go back to my point about Palin not coming off as an ignoramus, it's not that I expected her to seem so aloof that Biden would wipe the floor with her, but I thought her lack of knowledge in many areas, particularly foreign affairs, would do her in. The McCain camp must've really did a number to prep her for the debate. I will agree with New Mexico governor Bill Richardson, who said a moment ago on MSNBC that Palin stopped the bleeding, but it's very clear that at the end of the day, who do you trust to lead the nation should something happen to where Obama or McCain couldn't carry out their duties?

I had felt almost sorry for Palin going in, after the Katie Couric interview and all. In the debate, I thought that she was defeated pretty soundly, but at least she didn't embarrass herself- and I'm glad for that...

Folks, we just watched it again on C-SPAN. DO THAT if you get the chance. It shows it all in split screen—which makes her look terrible. At points it looked like she was about to cry or throw up, and then she'd smile or smirk and be smart-ass again. No way a man would get away with her obnoxiousness. It reminds one of all Bush's little snarkiness -- but worse (which I never thought I'd say).

And Biden was super. Seeing it again without crime really showed how he did everything exactly as he needed to.

I think she did embarass herself now that I watched it again—but not in as bad a way as with Couric. She's lucky expectations for her are so low.

But there is sure no game-changer here, at least not in McCain-Palin's directions. Early polls are showing that.

And Kacy, I agree: She made a huge mistake by not acknowledging Biden's emotion. If it's not about her, she doesn't seem to care. And that showed. It's remarkable that his best moment was on the subject of family. Simply brilliant.

Most importantly: There was nothing presidential about her, and that was apparent. Maybe in a few years after she gets some learnin' about the world beyond Alaska.

David Gergen on CNN: "Joe Biden gave the best debate performance of his life."

I don't know: I'm kinda feeling like maybe the Palin obsession will slow down now. I think we got the best possible from her tonight, and it was substanceless and obnoxious.

And Biden nailed it.

Going to bed.

From Factcheck.org:

Biden and Palin debated, and both mangled some facts.

-Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to pre-surge levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.

-Biden incorrectly said John McCain voted the exact same way as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.

-Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on families making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.

-Biden wrongly claimed that McCain voted the exact same way as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.

-Palin claimed McCain health care plan would be budget neutral, costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

-Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the president of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.

-Palin wrongly claimed that millions of small businesses would see tax increases under Obamas tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.

http://www.factcheck.org

There's more to than troop-funding point, and I thought Biden made the point that the budget bill was over an amendment, but I don't remember that part well.

The "budget-neutral" claim about the health-care plan was *remarkable*.

There was an even better factcheck session on NPR this morning.

I'm surprised Factcheck didn't mention the McClelland gaffe. That one is is hilarious.

Meantime, back in God's Country, a judge rules that her Troopergate investigation must proceed, even though her husband is defying the law and refusing to testify.

Now, why refuse to testify if you did nothing wrong?

Yeah because as the Innocence Project shows, if you didn't do anything wrong, the system will protect you.

"Protect" you? Fat Harry, the Innocence Project is fighting and scrapping to get fair trials for people who have been in prison for 12, 16 years, and on death row.

Your point is a non sequitur.

Salon editor Joan Walsh has a good column about the debate, and two of Palin's big gaffes of showing no sympathy for Biden's loss, and the idiot statement about giving the vice president more power, a la Dick Cheney:

There were two key moments for me when Sarah Palin blew it badly. One was substantive, one was symbolic. The substantive was her bizarre statement about being happy that Dick Cheney had expanded the powers of the vice-presidency, and wanting to expand the powers more. I think that's what she said, it was one of many moments I didn't entirely understand her point, but I got her overall meaning. Biden came back with a decisive: "Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president in American history," and he defended the existing limits on vice-presidential power. Point: Biden. Big time.

The symbolic moment Palin flubbed was subjective, of course. But I instant-messaged a friend that she lost the debate when Biden choked up over losing his wife and child in a car accident in which his sons were critically injured -- and she went straight back into "John McCain is a maverick." I truly expected her to express human sympathy with Biden, and her failure to do so showed me something deeply wrong with her. But maybe that's just me.

She made other mistakes that others have already caught: She called the top commander in Afghanistan "General McClellan"; his name is David McKiernan. She said the troop levels in Iraq are down to pre-surge levels; they're not. She simply didn't answer a lot of the questions. Moderator Gwen Ifill tried to pull her back, but Palin is stubborn; she had her talking points, and she stuck to them.

I just saw someone make a very exciting point. Palin-the-spectacle helped last night's debate draw the largest debate audience in years.

And that audience got to see Biden give his best debate performance ever, and got to hear her call the Afghanistan commander the name of a Civil War general, change the subject away from questions she couldn't answer, change John McCain's policy on helping homeowners, and sneer over and over again at a very respectful Joe Biden. Not to mention not even acknowledge his powerful story about losing his family.

The Obama camp must be thrilled today about Sarah Barracuda being on this ticket.

Comic relief: Sarah Palin Debate Flow Chart

Folo is quoting Paul Krugman showing that Palin's Reagan "freedom" quote at the end was from a speech Reagan made against "socialized medicine":

When did he say this? It was on a recording he made for Operation Coffeecup — a campaign organized by the American Medical Association to block the passage of Medicare. Doctors’ wives were supposed to organize coffee klatches for patients, where they would play the Reagan recording, which declared that Medicare would lead us to totalitarianism.

It is wild that Palin's handlers are not looking at the context of these quotes they're putting in her mouth. Remember the white supremacist, Westbrook Pegler she quoted about Main Street in her Convention speech? Shudder.

Quoting people out of context for a different reason is akin to plagiarism—and it certainly assumes the American public is too dumb to Google to find out the difference.

(I also saw someone somewhere reveal the Reagan source of that quote last night, but I don't remember where in order to give credit where it's due.)

NOW, it's time for Palin to hold a real press conference and take questions from all media.

Another observation that I expected the pundits to make was when Palin and Biden greeted one another at the beginning. She asked, "Can I call you Joe?" I wondered why she would want to be that familiar and informal with someone she had never met and had ridiculed in her speeches. I realized why when she used that obviously rehearsed rejoinder "Say it ain't so Joe...doggonit don't keep looking back"! It might have been a good line had she not let everybody hear her ask to call Biden 'Joe' and had she not kept looking back herself. Even her closing statement in which she quoted Reagan was obviously rehearsed. Reminded me of the rote Easter speeches from back in the day!

This is one of the weirdest things I've ever read in my life, Rich Lowry at the National Review:

A very wise TV executive once told me that the key to TV is projecting through the screen. It's one of the keys to the success of, say, a Bill O'Reilly, who comes through the screen and grabs you by the throat. Palin too projects through the screen like crazy. I'm sure I'm not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me." And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can't be learned; it's either something you have or you don't, and man, she's got it.

Palin looked better. Biden's jacket was a little wrankle and the long shots of him didn't do anything for me. It was different with Palin! She wasn't quite as right as the night of the acceptance speech, but she was kind of smoldering where it counts. And they tell me she debated her image for 90 minutes. I don't remember anything she said.

<one of the weirdest things I've ever read> Ladd, it sounds like what a 16 year-old friend of my daughters (a girl) said when Obama came on tv while she was over. She squealed in delight and hollered, "OH!, he is SO DREAMY!!!" Lowry was saying in his way, "Oh, SHE is SO DREAMY!!!" (picture sparkles and stuff in your brain).

I dunno Rich. It's hard to find any woman attractive when you close your eyes and she sounds just like Rosanne Barr.

There were some chicks who were turned on by Joe Biden's style and testosterone (and good answers), too. From Salon:

I thought Sarah Palin began well -- good eye contact, strong body language, that devilishly clever "Can I call you Joe?" -- but as the debate wore on, I was struck more and more by how Biden was puncturing her shtick. Sarah Palin kept lobbing her zingers, and a few of them might have struck, but every time she aimed for his heart, Biden just laughed. A good-natured laugh -- not forced but an easygoing, amiable laugh that proved just how game he was for this battle, how native this environment was and how thick his skin had become. And it yanked away a little bit of her power each and every time. She went from a forceful presence to a foolish scold. Maybe I'm overstating the imbalance. But I swear she was starting to get nervous and pissed toward the end, pulling out desperate moves, like that stupid wink. Have you ever tried to discipline someone and then had them laugh in your face? It's maddening. Palin may be a pit bull, but last night, Biden was holding the leash. [...]

I watched the debate on CNN, which has replaced its regular annoying scroll across the bottom of the screen with a special annoying scroll -- a real-time graph that charts the reactions of certain undecided groups: In this case, undecided voters in Ohio, divided by gender. Depending on your viewpoint, this is either fascinating or infuriating -- for me, it is a little of both.

At first, the division by gender struck me as ham-fisted, but I must admit it was a terrific prism by which to view the debate (to what extent it is correct, or indicative of any larger trend, I cannot say). From the beginning, Biden scored high with women and Palin was flailing. There were some exceptions to this trend, of course, but if you are interested in an overall snapshot I would have to say: Women buy Biden, and they are leaving Palin on the shelf.

This reflects my experience, and so it feels true. In a nutshell: I believe him, and I think she is full of ####. My God, my heart was pounding when Biden spoke about the loss of his wife and child -- an eloquent, moving moment that, as Joan Walsh pointed out today, was one of the key exchanges of the debate. [...]

I don't know what Joe Biden is made of, exactly. (I suspect a doctor would disagree with my diagnosis.) But what I know is that he is well spoken and confident and had the decency not to correct Palin when she made amateur blunders (calling David McKiernan "General McClellan," for instance). But he still refused to take her bullshit.

When Biden unleashed his righteous anger on Dick Cheney -- "Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president in American history" -- you could practically hear the stadium roar. And if you were watching that graph on the bottom of the CNN screen unfold its little narrative, you saw a spike in both genders' reactions. [...]

But to what extent is it the euphoria of watching a man with real command of facts, details and history? The gratification of agreeing with the person at the microphone when you feel as though you have been robbed of a voice? The satisfaction of watching Biden knock Palin down -- not like an animal, but like a gentleman and a scholar? To what extent is it my throbbing boner (pardon the expression) for gentlemen and scholars? As one of my friends said this morning, he played the romantic hero. And I know it might sound weird, but as I watched him last night one word kept popping into my head, and that word was: virile.

On that note, I'm signing off—hopefully for the weekend. It was a great week hanging with y'all.

Ciao, friends.

OK, I have one more—and this is a big WTF!?! going out to MSNBC. They have a headline on top of their site right now, Women on Palin: Even critics say she delivers (a story written by their HEALTH writer). But when you read the story, they don't give any actual numbers about women saying that she won the debate or anything close to it, and that it was *Republican* women who decided they liked her better:

<I>Overall, Palin did better among women than among men, with greatest gains coming from Republican women relieved that the second female nominee in the nation’s history avoided mistakes and appeared confident and connected to ordinary voters.

But keep reading:

“As a woman, I just wanted her to stop embarrassing us,” said Susannah Nation, 32, a human resources manager in Kentfield, Calif. “I’ve got to say I was impressed. She did not change my vote and I will never agree with her, but she was a studied candidate.”

Only male Democrats viewed Palin less favorably after the debate than before, according to Mitchell McKinney, a University of Missouri-Columbia researcher whose past debate analysis has predicted national trends.

“In her debate performance, females overall found her more convincing or were more favorably inclined [than before],” said McKinney, who has been studying national debates since 1992.


THEN, near the bottom they do give numbers and the actual real news of the story:

Overall, Biden’s favorability, already higher than Palin’s, rose by 26 percent, from 53 to 67 points. Palin’s, which started at 36 points and climbed to 41, rose by 14 percent.

Republican men ranked Palin high, raising her approval scores from 67 to 73. Only Democratic men, already displeased with Palin, became even more so, with scores falling by 21 percent, from 19 to 15.

FINALLY, then some numbers about women:

With women, however, Palin’s approval climbed 11 percent, from 70 to 79 among Republicans, and by 20 percent, from 21 to 25 points among Democrats. That split mirrors obvious party divisions, Mitchell said, but it also shows that Palin held her own despite recent stumbles.

“What I believe this is showing is that she exceeded expectations,” McKinney said. “Viewers were saying, ‘Wow, she didn’t fail; she didn’t embarrass herself.”

To review, the real news is that, overall, Biden’s favorability, already higher than Palin’s, rose by 26 percent, from 53 to 67 points. Palin’s started at 36 points and climbed to 41, 14 percent.

Republican men and women were relieved that she didn't fall off the stage and like her a bit better, Democratic men like her less, Democratic women like her a touch more, and we have no idea what undecided voters think or whether anyone surveyed plans to change their vote one way or the other. And they give us nothing about his favorability breakdowns.

Useless. He should keep writing about Prozac or something.

NOW, I'm really leaving. B'bye.